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Or, at least, seems to miss something important
The idea that liberals are not religious, especially in this country, is flat stupid. Many liberals, myself included, are liberals because of their religious beliefs. Because Kristoff misses this simple fact, he completely misses the point here:
But liberal critiques sometimes seem not just filled with outrage at evangelical-backed policies, which is fair, but also to have a sneering tone about conservative Christianity itself.
Many liberals express disgust at Conservative Christianity not because they are contemptuous of religion, but because they are horrified at conservative Christianity. Let me be blunt: fundamentalists Christianity is completely at odds with everything I believe the teachings of Christ to be about.
The real bias in Kristoff's column is the one I see far too often - the notion that Jerry Falwell and his ilk represents Christianity. It is perfectly possible to be a Christian and believe that fundamentalism is fundamentally flawed as an expression of the teachings of Christ.
Kristoff's column is just the continuation of the silly notion that fundamental Christianity represents the "real" Christianity. Maybe when Kristoff realizes that Billy Hinn doesn't speak for all of us, then we can talk.
Until then, I do not need to reach out to fundamentalists, I merely need to leave them to live their lives. When they try to force their religious beliefs upon the rest of us, I will continue to fight them. Not because I hate religion, Mr. Kristoff but because I believe their policies are harmful, because I believe that only in the separation of Church and State can people be truly free, and because, as a liberal believer in the teachings of Christ, it is what I am called to do.
UPDATE: I was using evangelical where I should have been using fundamentalist. In Memphis, the difference is hard to see, but, after thinking about it, in fairness, evengalicals are not all fundamentalists.
Amen, brother. Exactly right.
Posted by: BarryIt is a mistake to lump all christians into one big pile. There is a wide range in christianity. Religion it seems to me should be a private affair. If it helps one be a better person, great. Just don't force it down everyones throat like Bush does and the muslim fundies. Religion has helped many people and also been the cause of great tragedies. It is a shame that so many people can't help but use religion as a reason to do harm to others. Sometimes I wonder if the human race is improving or not.
Posted by: Norm - VenturaSince when has Bush forced his Christianity down anyone's throat?
Also, if you believed that someone was walking down a path that lead to their ultimate destruction, wouldn't you share that information? Or would you keep it to yourself in order to be polite?
Posted by: Joshua HooverIt's a basic tenet to some Christian denominations and beliefs that anything and everything should be done to help "save" the unbelievers. While the majority of followers fulfill this obligation passively, some take a more...agressive approach (street preachers, etc.).
In most cases they're not really being obnoxious - they're just following what they believe is required of them, just as much as someone with a more moderate interpretation of Christianity might feel morally obligated to be kind and love one another.
Posted by: BarryJosh - Bush has passed legislation and Budgets that limit a person's ability to use contraception, access an abortion, etc all based solely on his Faith.
Also, I am tired of the way Fundamentalists portray themselves and are portrayed as more serious and more devoted in their religious practices than non-fundamentalists and liberals. It may be actually more challenging to try to figure out God without thinking the Bible is straight from him. But any suggestion that fundamentalists are less devoute would be met with outrage and disagreement because the media and society constantly tell us they are more devout.
Also, I would argue, Fundamentalism (the belief that the Bible is the direct word of God) contradicts the opening of the Gospel of Luke, where he discusses how he has collected all the stories and accounts he could to tell the story of Christ.
I respect Fundamentalists right to believe what they will, but I think it is incorrect. I think they are often very devoted, but I don't think they are necessarily more devoted than other religious people.
Finally, I understand why Fundamentalists feel they have to preach to me (I am a born-again, evangelical, though most people would never identify me as such because I see evangelizing as a more subtle thing). However, there is something very unseemly about politicians calling on God. Every politician embraces those views that are most compatible with their faith system about the universe (except when they're being corrupt, which is far too common). For most Democrats and Republicans, their religion influences their politices deeply. However, they still disagree. The difference is their level of arrogance about their ability to speak for God. Our leaders do not strike me as prophets. Most of them know this and don't pretend they can speak appropriately for God. Others assume that they know God so well and are so aligned with God that they can speak in his name. It's a little gross.
Posted by: MDtoMNJosh
Bush has had information about the effectivness of condoms and the lack of effectivness of absitnenence only sex education removed from government web sites. He is ignoring science in favor of his religious beliefs.
Posted by: kevinThere's a self righteousness in the language of the fundamentalist politicians, particularly their distinction between "people of faith" and everyone else, as if no one but them has a legitimate religious based faith. This becomes particularly dangerous when a fundamentalist president, as an example, begins to tear down the walls separating church and state based on his "true revelation of god" and not on sound principles of law and democracy. It becomes astoundingly scary when that president believes he has some special role as an instrument of god in taking on non-believers. We really don't know where Bush is at on this question. The snow job by Howard Fineman in Newsweek ("Bush & God")aside, the press has not asked questions about this man's belief system and it's relationship to policy. Straight arrow Republican David Gergen says in a discussion at http://hnn.us/comments/8575.html
“…One of the interesting questions that I don't think anybody knows the answer to is whether, to--to--to some extent, he believes that--that providence intervened in his life at an earlier stage and whether, somehow, providence is now on the side of America and that he somehow may be an instrument of providence that--par--part of what he's on, as Robert Dallek suggested, is a mission that has so--some sort of theological roots. I don't think we know that...” I think we'd better find this out before we're lead into armageddon by a whole fundamentalist crowd blissfully awaiting their rapture.
There's a self righteousness in the language of the fundamentalist politicians, particularly their distinction between "people of faith" and everyone else, as if no one but them has a legitimate religious based faith. This becomes particularly dangerous when a fundamentalist president, as an example, begins to tear down the walls separating church and state based on his "true revelation of god" and not on sound principles of law and democracy. It becomes astoundingly scary when that president believes he has some special role as an instrument of god in taking on non-believers. We really don't know where Bush is at on this question. The snow job by Howard Fineman in Newsweek ("Bush & God") aside, the press has not asked questions about this man's belief system and it's relationship to policy. Straight arrow Republican David Gergen says in a discussion at http://hnn.us/comments/8575.html
“…One of the interesting questions that I don't think anybody knows the answer to is whether, to--to--to some extent, he believes that--that providence intervened in his life at an earlier stage and whether, somehow, providence is now on the side of America and that he somehow may be an instrument of providence that--par--part of what he's on, as Robert Dallek suggested, is a mission that has so--some sort of theological roots. I don't think we know that...” I think we'd better find this out before we're lead into armageddon by a whole fundamentalist crowd blissfully awaiting their rapture.
What ever happened to FUNdamentalism?! Don't leave home without it. I have fun, if you have fun. Consult Swami Beyondananda. He'll set you straight with smooth words about the spiritual realm.
Evangelicals and fundamentalists are not in one boiling pot together. You can be one without the other and vice versa. Get real people!
Hey, the Methodists started "fundamentalism", but they don't "own it" anymore. Wesley wouldn't recognise his church as remaining unchanged. Now there has sprung up a more viralent variety pushed by the Southern Baptists.
--Rev. Dr. Antman Daufuskie Bea, Spiritual Advisor to the unknown and nameless.
Posted by: Steve PlonkSuprisingly I use to be a liberal that was very afraid of conservative Christians but you know what after many downfalls in my life I have become what I was afraid of, a conservative Christian. Conservatives follow the traditional Christianity. And that is just what I need in my life at this point because I realize that I nor any human can solve my problems. And for sure Liberalism and big government canoot solve all of man's problems.
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