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I don't know how I missed this, but I did
Col. David Hogg, commander of the 2nd Brigade of the 4th Infantry Division, said tougher methods are being used to gather the intelligence. On Wednesday night, he said, his troops picked up the wife and daughter of an Iraqi lieutenant general. They left a note: "If you want your family released, turn yourself in." Such tactics are justified, he said, because, "It's an intelligence operation with detainees, and these people have info." They would have been released in due course, he added later.
The official government policy is now to take hostages. To threaten the lives of innocent people in order to try and get information. To mirror the tactics of fscking Hezbollah and the PLO from the 1980's. When did threatening woman and children become a morally acceptable thing to do? Does no one think that this might irritate the people of Iraq just a wee bit? When, exactly, did this country sell its soul?
And don't you dare say its justified because of the tactics used by the guerrillas. We are supposed to stand for things like justice, and liberty, and not taking innocents hostage. Its what makes this country worth fighting for. I am not willing to throw that away because you backed a politician who did not plan for the consequences of his own actions. Find a way out of this mess that does not soil this country, or get the hell out of the way and let competent people finish the job.
Kevin,
As a general set of questions. Who should have stopped Saddam Hussein from killing more hundreds of thousands of his own people? Who should have stopped him from torturing untold thousands? Who should have stopped him from planning and executing the next war on his neighbors? Where was the justice in what he was doing to his own people?
Joe Gannett
So, its allright to use the same tactics Saddam did, Joe? Is that your standard?
Posted by: kevinJoe:
As if any of those things you mention were actually reasons why we went to war with Iraq in the first place. There are any number of African nations in which the leadership commits such atrocities or worse against their own people. Are we just going to keep invading those places until all the despots are gone?
Give me a friggin' break. The fact that Saddam treated his people abysmally may help you sleep better at night, but it had very little to do with our decision to go to war with him.
And as Kevin points out, we're beginning to act like Saddam. This is okay with you? I notice that you conveniently pull the bait-and-switch and dodge that answer.
Shouting "Saddam is Evil!" does not justify every action taken under the auspices of deposing him.
Posted by: tgirschDon't forget that Saddam invaded Iran with the active encouragement of the US, and Kuwait with a pretty clear green light from our ambassador. He hadn't attacked anybody in twelve years, which is a lot more than you can say for the US.
Does anyone know of a reasonable accounting of Saddam's atrocities? I saw some web page which claimed to answer the question "How many people has Saddam killed?" It said over one million, but it included everyone killed in the Iran-Iraq war (both sides), everyone killed in the invasion of Kuwait and the Gulf War, everyone killed in the Bush 41 inspired Shiite uprising of '91, and everyone killed by the sanctions. With all of this happening in the last 23 years, of course there are mass graves in Iraq. How many of the deaths are actually attributable to the political repression and torture that Joe and so many others imply?
Just want to know. I don't agree with Thomas Friedman that a single skull justifies the war. People have died for all sorts of reasons in Iraq, including natural causes. The recent war has just filled more graves, and continues to do so.
Posted by: BobI think Joe is trying to argue that the ends justify the means. I think Saddam would find his a convincing argument. After all, Saddam was trying to help the entire country of Iraq, right? At least that's what Saddam would argue. What's wrong with a little torture and murder when pursuing such a noble goal? It's a slippery slope, Joe.
Posted by: thom
