Missing the Forest
Posted by
Kevin
For smart guy, Matt Yglesias is certainly missing the boat here:
Sure, I would expect African Americans to be displeased with Bennett’s remarks and saying something that will predictably upset someone or some group of people is an insensitive way to behave. But so what? By this token it was insensitive of Armando and, indeed, Garance to write posts criticizing my post. Sensitivity notwithstanding, however, there’s still a substantive issue here. It is, in fact, the case that African Americans have a drastically higher incidence of committing crime than do non-black Americans. Some have attributed to Bennett the view that this is a genetic characteristic of African Americans; that’s an absurd thing to believe, but not something Bennett said (as far as I know). The high African American crime rate is in part a consequence of economic factors, in part a consequence of cultural ones, and in part a consequence of simple discrimination in crime reporting and arrest rates.
First, Bennet thought of blacks when he thought of crimes, despite the fact that poverty, maleness, and living in the South also make people statistically more likely to commit crime. That is, at a minimum, suggestive. But more importantly, Bennet didn’t say that killing all blacks today would reduce crime. He said that aborting all black fetuses would reduce crime. Those fetuses would have no effect on the crime rate for fifteen to twenty years. Bennet wasn’t thinking about today — he was thinking about the future. And the only way that makes sense is if there is something inherent in being African-American that makes you more likely to commit crimes.
And that, plain and simple, is racism.
Kevin:
The hypothetical scenario correlated abortion and the reduction of crime…
It is interesting to read the thoughts of a conservative African-American on this issue:
http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/10/03/billbennett/
Comment 10/4/2005
It was an incredibly racist thing to say, and sadly I’m not surprised at how many are trying to defend it.
Comment 10/4/2005
What part of what Bennett say is not true? The lack of context is appalling. There was nothing racist in his response to a caller to his radio show.
Comment 10/4/2005
Why no. Insinuating that fewer black people means less crime isn’t racist in the least! /sarcasm
Comment 10/4/2005
Is that not a fact? Fewer whites, hispanics, etc. would mean fewer crimes. Why don’t you try putting his comments in context.
Comment 10/4/2005
No, it is not a fact that fewer blacks means less crime.
And I’ve read his comments in context. The study he was quoting didn’t even address race. While I disagree with the correlation and the conclusions reached with that study, it certainly didn’t seem to be implying any faults that any specific race might have. He was implying that blacks are inherently criminal with that statement. He did not say whites. He did not say hispanics. He said blacks. If he’d said “If we abort all white babies, then the crime rate would go down” then he would certainly be implying the same thing about white people.
Comment 10/4/2005
Fred, the “crime rate” isn’t the total amount of crime. It’s — I’m not sure how to put this other than to restate it — the rate of crime, the ratio of criminal acts to population.
Bennett was saying that blacks are disproportionately likely to commit crimes. More than that, he was saying that blacks born today will inevitably grow up to be disproportionately likely to commit crimes.
Comment 10/4/2005
Dawn: Bennett was saying that blacks are disproportionately likely to commit crimes.
Fred: Have you checked the crime statistics for various racial groups? Check them out and them come back and try to say that a disportionate number of crimes are not committed by blacks. It is amazing how much more you know about what Bennett meant than he does. Your prejudice is showing. You need to put his comments into context and quit laying your biases on top of his words.
Comment 10/4/2005
My prejudice is showing? I’m the one who’s arguing that being black doesn’t make one more likely to be criminal for crying out loud.
If Bennet doesn’t want people to think his comments are racist, then he shouldn’t make racist comments. And saying that fewer black people means the crime rate goes down is racist. Saying that there is any significant meaning to crime stats based on race when there are so many other factors contributing to crime is racist. The color of your skin does not make you more likely to be a criminal, and you, and anyone else who argues that is making a racist argument. Period.
Comment 10/4/2005
Dawn:
Is there EVER a time when one can make statements regarding race without being considered racist?
Comment 10/5/2005
Wacko, yes, of course. If the statements aren’t racist. Stating that aborting black babies will lower the crime rate is about as racist as they come. It isn’t even ambigious, for crying out loud. It isn’t even the usual codespeak; he came right out and said it!
Comment 10/5/2005
Dawn: My prejudice is showing? I’m the one who’s arguing that being black doesn’t make one more likely to be criminal for crying out loud.
Fred: For crying out loud, who has argued that point? If you are going to refute a point, try to make it a point that has been made. To do otherwise makes no sense. The fact is that blacks make up a higher percentage of people in jail than do other racial groups. It is not racist to point out a fact. Again, you are taking Bennett’s comment out of context and that is intellectually dishonest. Those who are trying to make hay out of taking the comments and twisting them are racial pimps.
Comment 10/5/2005
Fred, Bennet didn’t state that blacks make up a higher percentage of people in jail than do other racial groups. He said aborting black babies would lower the crime rate. The fact is that blacks aren’t inherently criminals.
Stating that blacks make up a disproportionate precentage of inmates is not racist. I’ve never claimed that. However, taking those facts and concluding that that means that blacks are just naturally more criminal IS. Do you see the difference? There are many reasons why blacks are disproportinately jailed. It is not a simple matter. To automatically jump to the conclusion that it means blacks are more likely to be criminals by virtue of their blackness is prejudicial and racist. And stating that fewer black babies means lower crime rate is saying just that. Those who try to twist facts to fit their racist opinions are racists.
Comment 10/5/2005
Let me put it another way. If Bennet had said something to the effect that if every black person who commits crimes fell off the face of the planet, it would reduce the crime rate, your arguments would make more sense. Because, while it’s still iffy because it’s singling out black people, it would at least show that Bennet isn’t merely equating black with criminal. To state that if every black person disappeared it would reduce the crime rate, which is effectively what Bennet was saying, because aborting all black babies would eventually mean no more black people, is without a doubt racist, because the implication is that it is *being black* and no other factor, that makes a person more likely to be a criminal. And that is racist.
Comment 10/5/2005
Good grief! How do you make up these absurdities? Practice I guess. How many times must you be told to put what he said in context? It was the caller he was responding to who brought up race. Reread what he said immediately following the comment about aborting black babies. If you take this as a racist comment it is because you want to, not because it is. Do you not have any intellectual ability to understand that when a person makes a statement and immediately shoots it down that he is not advocating what was earlier said? It would be like you saying that if every white person were killed that crime would go down and then immediately saying that such a proposition is absurd. I hope that people would not think you are advocating the death of all white people.
Comment 10/5/2005
BTW, do you know that Bill Bennett and his wife are the heads of a charity that puts needy black children in D.C. with mentors to help them learn how to escape poverty? What have you done lately for black children?
Comment 10/5/2005
Dawn: To automatically jump to the conclusion that it means blacks are more likely to be criminals by virtue of their blackness is prejudicial and racist. And stating that fewer black babies means lower crime rate is saying just that.
Fred: If anyone said that being black made one more likely to be a criminal, then that would be racist. The only problem is, Bennett didn’t even come close to saying that. You have to be a mental gymnist to come up with that interpretation.
Comment 10/5/2005
A mental gymnast? He basically said we’d all be better off without black people! You haven’t done anything to show me that his remarks could mean anything else except to accuse me of twisting them around. No one who has defended him can come up with another explanation without completely twisting it beyond recognition. If he meant blacks who commited crimes, then that is what he should have said. Not impune black fetuses everywhere. It’s nice that Bill Bennett helps black children, but it isn’t nice that he thinks the crime rate would go down if they were never born. No one ever said racists were never charitable. I’ve certainly never claimed that. Whether or not I help black children is irrelevant, because we’re talking about racists. I don’t think the crime rate would go down if they were aborted.
I give up. Apparently someone has to be wearing a white sheet before they can be reasonably called a racist. Even then, I’m not so sure. “Well, Dawn, did you ever think that maybe he didn’t have time to pick up his laundry that day?”
Comment 10/5/2005
I give up, too. Apparently you call everyone a racist with whom you disagree. Your refusal to put things in context and to continue to misrepresent what Bennett said shows that you have no desire to recognize the truth and only have an interest in spewing your hatred. I feel sorry for you.
Comment 10/5/2005
Fred, I stated my opinion that Bennett’s statement is racist. I disagreed with you that his comments weren’t racist. I didn’t call you a racist. And I don’t know how I can be taking it out of context since I’ve read about the whole encounter. It’s as racist it context as it is out of context. Implying that we’re better off without black people in or out of the context it was stated in is racist.
Comment 10/5/2005
I thought you had given up on convincing me through your twisting of Bennett’s words that he is a racist. Fortunately, truth is not determined by your opinions. Move on. It is a lie to say he said or implied we would be better off without black people. Grow up and get the chip off your shoulder.
Comment 10/6/2005