And it’s not just de-regulation. Don’t forget the unions = evil philosiphy as well.

This was not a Union Mine and you can bet UMWA will have some choice things to say. I hope the so-called-liberal-media will listen.

It didn’t take you long to turn a tragedy into another hate-filled rant. Congratulations.

Fred -

This wasn’t a random occurrence.

A mine with over two hundred safety violations should have been shutdown by the Bush Administration, but wasn’t.

I think Bush himself was seen leaving the mine right before the collapse.

If the government closed the mine, the families of the dead miners would be upset as would the rest of the town because their livelihood would be gone. This is the same point that is made about using child labor from Central America or Asia so we can buy cheap sweatshirts at Walmart. If we crack down, the kids lose their jobs. While union organization has been a counterbalance in the past, one of the reasons that unions have lost clout–in addition to hostile government-is that too many unions came to identify with the employers and whether it is the government or the union that shuts the mine down the result is the same–no work. While I much prefer capitalism to socialism, capitalism is flawed and does lead to the exploitation of both the workers and the consumers if unchecked.How a proper balance gets struck is a difficult problem and while the Republicans have not struck a proper balance, the Democrats have not done so hot either. Ultimately, it is a political question and right now the capitalists are winning the battle for the hearts and minds of the populace.

Terry, that’s an awfully defeatest attitude. Exploitation does not have to come wth the territory. For example, we eradicated child labor in our own country and capitalism continued to thrive nonetheless, and the lives of children improved vastly. To continue to exploit children in other countries is inexcusable, and the fight against it is for the good of those children. Yeah, they may lose their jobs. Precisely! They shouldn’t be working in the first place. Their families need the income, but so did the families in America. The asnwer then wasn’t to continue to allow corporations to take advantage of that, and it isn’t the answer now.

As far as the families of the miners, I’d be willing to bet that if you had asked them before this happened what they thought of cutting funding for the safety of their loved ones, they would have considered the lives and safety of their loved ones more important than fattening the profits of the corporation they work for. A person needing a job doesn’t make disregarding their safety ethical, for crying out loud.

Dawn: “Yeah, they may lose their jobs. Precisely! They shouldn’t be working in the first place.”

Fred: I recently visited a favela(shantytown) in Brazil. The extreme poverty of the children is beyond description. I do not believe in any form of misuse or abuse of children. The ideal situation is that children should be children and not need to work. Sometimes reality intervenes into pie-in-the-sky ideals. If the choice is between starvation and work, who are you to choose starvation for them? That’s not very compassionate.

Only 1 W. Va. miner found alive

In a heartbreaking reversal, mining officials said Wednesday that 11 of the 12 trapped coal miners i

Fred, the answer is to eradicate that poverty, not perpetuate it. That is what child labor does. It perpetuates that poverty you witnessed. It is pie in the sky to think that those jobs are helping them in any way whatsoever. Have we forgotten that we used to do this to our own? That it wasn’t until this practice was stopped that child poverty was improved greatly in this country? We have families in our own country still that are so desperately poor that they’d send their kids off to the factory if they could. Do we allow factories to start employing them? Of course not.

Dawn: “Let them eat cake!”

Fred: “Check out this new shirt I got from the Gap!”

All I can say is thank God we didn’t listen to that crap about the kiddies needing the job in our own country.

But, getting back to the topic, the argument that deregulation is good for the people is so much crock. Dergulation is only good for fattening profits on the backs of the workers.

Dawn, what have you done to help the children in the 3rd world besides not buy a shirt at GAP?

Fred, I haven’t argued that it’s okay for companies to continue to exploit them, because they’re better off with those jobs. That’s a start. I’ve chosen not to align myself politically with others who think child labor is good for poor kids, among many other things.

That should go a long ways toward filling their empty stomachs. I’m sure they would thank you for your compassion if they could.

And I’m sure they think fondly of people like you who support child labor as they’re laborig away for 12 hours instead of, say, getting an education.

Cut the crap, Fred. It’s disingenious at best to suggest that because I don’t support child labor that I don’t care about the children. Are you really that lazy that you have to just drop out of the actual discussion? I never even implied that you didn’t care about the children and initially stuck to discussing why child labor doesn’t help child poverty, even though it’s digressing from the original topic. Then you started in with the tired, “let them eat cake” cliche. You start out strong, Fred. And just when I think an actual, meaningful dialogue is going to occur, bam! You give up and start with the typical Fred BS.

Maybe that’s why I haven’t been able to ignore you until now. Because there are actual little glimpses of the non-troll part of Fred that bubble up every now and then. I see it, and bite, and I get hooked into bantering with the troll Fred.

Dawn Says:

And I’m sure they think fondly of people like you who support child labor as they’re laborig away for 12 hours instead of, say, getting an education

Fred: What took you so long? You usually start your lies about me in your first response to my post. You are a liar. I do not support child labor, and I am very much in favor of education. Try it. It would do you some good to take an English course. Maybe then you would quit twisting my words. You are a dirty, filthy liar. You are obviously a very disturbed person and need professional help. You brought up child labor. Why do you lie so much?

Unlike you, I am actually doing something about the needs of poor children in Brazil. Quit talking and start doing. Anyone can talk.

I’ve never asked you to respond to anything I say. I couldn’t care less what you think, so don’t bother to respond. Your lies and silly rants are just entertainment for me. I like to see liberals get caught up in their own foolishness.

Here’s a thought, Fred: if you are concenred that children who go to school will starve to death, how about supporting trade agreements that include labor standards that get Mommy and Daddy decent wages. That way, Junior can go to school and eat too. It has worked pretty well in the developed world.

You must be Dawn’s husband.

Dawn Says:

And I’m sure they think fondly of people like you who support child labor as they’re laborig away for 12 hours instead of, say, getting an education

Fred: What took you so long? You usually start your lies about me in your first response to my post. You are a liar. I do not support child labor, and I am very much in favor of education. Try it. It would do you some good to take an English course. Maybe then you would quit twisting my words. You are a dirty, filthy liar. You are obviously a very disturbed person and need professional help. You brought up child labor. Why do you lie so much?

Unlike you, I am actually doing something about the needs of poor children in Brazil. Quit talking and start doing. Anyone can talk.

I’ve never asked you to respond to anything I say. I couldn’t care less what you think, so don’t bother to respond. Your lies and silly rants are just entertainment for me. I like to see liberals get caught up in their own foolishness..

Fred, I didn’t say you supported child labor. I was mocking your trollish “debate” style. At that point, I’d given up having a real discussion with you. You aren’t capable of it, and I don’t plan on engaging you in the future. You are a troll, and nothing more.

I’d like to add you are the one who chooses to come to this blog, and continue to comment here. Who knows why you waste your time here, but it’s obvious we don’t entertain you. We make you mad. Our very existence infuriates you, and that comes through very clearly. And, while you’re annoying, it does give me childish satisfaction to know this. This is my terf. I’m not the one going to blogs of people who don’t think the way I do and troll them. Don’t expect me to believe you when you say you don’t care whether I or anyone respond to you. Frankly, not only do I not believe it, but I hope it isn’t true, because that would be truly pathetic.

Here’s a thought, Fred: if you are concenred that children who go to school will starve to death, how about supporting trade agreements that include labor standards that get Mommy and Daddy decent wages. That way, Junior can go to school and eat too. It has worked pretty well in the developed world.

Yep, you’re my husband alright. You obviously don’t care about children, either. You want to see the unemployment rates for the under 16 set plummet, don’t you. You don’t care enough about kids to self rightiously brag about gawking at them in person on someone else’s blog. You heartless bastard.

LOL

You constantly lie about what I say. I don’t get mad at you, I feel sorry for you. What a miserable life you must lead. Hate eats at you like a cancer. Go ahead and enjoy your incestous relationship with you fellow liberals and wallow in your hate. Don’t let any non-liberal thoughts get in the way of your closed mind.