Behave Yourselves
Feb 8
Just a quick question for Senaotr McCain and Kate O’Brien and anyone else the right wing trots out in what appears t be a sure to grow smear campaign: where the hell do you get off telling the family and friends of Coretta Scott King what they can and cannot say at her funeral? What kind of soulless ghoul takes it upon themselves to tell the family of a dead woman how they should and should conduct themselves at her funeral?
A funeral is a celebration of the life of the person. The friends and family of the person get to decide how to best celebrate that life. And Mrs. King’s entire life was about fighting violence, about fighting injustice, about fighting for civil rights and dignity and justice for everyone. The day after her husband was brutally shot down, she lead a march on Washington in defense of their shared dream. It would be a travesty if her friends and family, the people who fought alongside her, the people who supported her through things that no one should have to live through, were compelled by Republican party to refrain form celebrating her life and her struggle however they saw fit. If you don’t understand why people would celebrate and defend King’s life work and call for others to continue that work, that is your myopia. And your blindness is not their problem.
Outsiders don’t get to decide how a funeral is run, and strangers don’t get to tell grieving friends and family and admirers how they should and should not conduct themselves in the honoring of their friend. Here is a hint, so that you can avoid looking like an ass in the future. If the family and friends did not ask you for your opinion, then you are not considered a friend and your opinion means fsck all.
#1 by SayUncle at February 8th, 2006
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I see no indication from the links provided (nor from a quick news search) of anyone telling them what they can and cannot say. I see criticism of what they said.
#2 by rMatey at February 8th, 2006
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Where better than a social function (wake) for a civil rights figure. Seems like we’re back to wiretapping and spying on the masses. Also a very good shot by Jimmy at the misinformation by the Chimpadministration. The more things change, the more the repugnicunts stay the same, reining it in on the poor.
#3 by Eric Jaffa at February 8th, 2006
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SayUncle -
You’re taking the article by Kevin too literally.
In the context, obviously he isn’t talking about laws regulating what people can say at a funeral.
#4 by SayUncle at February 8th, 2006
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Caught the hardball video. All she said was it was inappropriate and reminded her of the Wellstone funeral. that’s not telling them what they can and cannot say.
Eric,
Never said that’s what he’s talking about.
#5 by Wacko! at February 8th, 2006
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“Behave Yourselves” yourself. Believe it or not, I agree with you AND I agree with McCain and O’Brien.
Of course noone has ANY right to comment on the appropriateness of what should or should not be done/said at a funeral, except for those closest to the situation.
On the other hand, when the media covers a funeral, talking heads are paid to analyze and inject their 2 cents. Aside from the obvious that noone has any right, I happen to agree with their two cents.
In my opinion, politics has no place at a funeral. Even though I have no right to an opinion, I was offended at how Wellstone’s funeral become a political platform. Similarly, I thought it was distasteful for Carter to inject such partisan opinion at a funeral.
Obviously, the King family invites “politics” into the intimacy of the funeral. Therefore, if you think about it, if Bush (Senior of Junior) said something equally partisan at the funeral, only to be skewered by political talking heads, would you have been similarly offended? I doubt it.
#6 by kevin at February 8th, 2006
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Yeah, Uncle, becasue when we tell people that things are innappropriate we don’t mean at all that they should not do or say that thing.
And more to the point, where the hell does she get off telling someone what is an is not approariate at the funeral for their friend and loved one. People who tell othe rpeope how to greave are generally considered assholes — except in GOP politics, apparently.
#7 by kevin at February 8th, 2006
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Wacko
Politics is a large part of Kings life. To avoid any mention of the things she fought for or the work she would have liked to see continued is to disrespect her life and her memory.
If he had said “I want to follow King’s legagacy and I think xxx is the way to do it” then, no, I would not have. I would have disagreed, probably consideirng his history, but it would have absolutely been an appropriate thing to do.
#8 by Fred at February 8th, 2006
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I think the funeral/political rally was great. I’m looking forward to seeing clips from it over and over. It once again points out the classless nature of democrats. No one I know wants democrats to shut up. Keep on talking. The radical hate-sprewing democrats don’t seem to have a clue as to how they sound to normal people. I just wish that Howard Dean had spoken at the rally.
The great thing about freedom of speech is that you can say anything at a funeral that you want and others are free to point out the lack of dignity and manners exhibited by some of the speakers. Carter seems to think only blacks were hurt by Katrina. I wonder how Ted (The Swimmer) Kennedy felt about Carter criticizing his dead brothers for doing some real domestic spying against King?
This low class behavior will harm the democrats just as the Wellstone “memorial” did. It couldn’t happen to a more deserving people.
#9 by Fred at February 8th, 2006
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BTW, why didn’t the democrat president, LBJ, attend MLK’s funeral?
#10 by Ted at February 8th, 2006
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Let me get this straight. Jimmy Carter is “friends and family” - because he was at the funeral. Does that mean Bush I & II are also “friends and family”?
#11 by kevin at February 8th, 2006
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Ted
The friends and family invited Carter to speak — their decisions, not yours. I don’t know if Bush was invited to speak or meerely attended.
#12 by Greg VA at February 8th, 2006
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Oh boo hoo hoo! Somebody’s widdle feelings got hurt at King’s funeral. Waaaaaah!
Guess what? Too freakin’ bad. The funeral of someone who’s life was devoted to politics and civil rights is going to have political overtones. If you can’t stand the heat . . .
Boo hoo hoo. Widdle thin-skinned Wepubwicans can’t stand a widdle cwiticism. Waaaaah!
#13 by Fred at February 8th, 2006
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I was once again proud that George Bush is my president. The class and dignity he showed is in deep contrast to Carter.
#14 by Stormy Dragon at February 8th, 2006
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>Just a quick question for Senaotr McCain and
>Kate O’Brien and anyone else the right wing
>trots out in what appears t be a sure to grow
>smear campaign: where the hell do you get off
>telling the family and friends of Coretta Scott
>King what they can and cannot say at her
>funeral?
The first ammendment. I can criticize anything, ANYTHING, I want to criticize. You are of course free to criticize me back, but the great thing is that I don’t have to care (not yet anyways).
Using a funeral to score cheap rhetorical points in a political debate taking place in congress is extremely gauche and reflect poorly on the speaker. And if, as you suggest, this was the wish of Mrs. King herself, then it reflect poorly on her.
I’d offer as a comparison the funeral of Ronald Reagan. He was certainly as political, if not more so, as Mrs. King. Yet there were no equivalent speeches criticizing Democrats during his services.
#15 by Fred at February 8th, 2006
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Kevin: The day after her husband was brutally shot down, she lead a march on Washington in defense of their shared dream.
Fred: You are wrong about that. Several days after MLK died she was in a march in Memphis..
#16 by kevin at February 8th, 2006
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SD
First, please show me where I said the government should keep these ghouls from speaking? nowhere? then 1st Amendment means jack all to this argument.
Second, your funeral analogy is weak. First, there are no Dmeocrts in power working agaisnt what the friends and family of Reagan think his legacy to be so there was no need to point out that his “work” was being undone or attacked. Second, there certinaly where attacks on how the people in power were handling his legacy at the funeral - -its jsut that they weren;t directed at Dmeocrats, becasue democrats aren’t, you know, in power.
And I find it sad that you would criticize how people hadle grief. I find it even more sad that talking about a dead woman’s dreams and aspirations and the work she would have wanted continued is nothing more than cheap politics to you. Politics has consequences, and King fought for equal rights her entire life. It would have been a lie for the peope at that funeral to pretned otherwise, and it would have been a disservice to pretend that her life was not about politics, about the process by which our society orders itself and does or does not protect freedom and equality. There is nothing gauche about honring the activism of a person and calling for their work to be continued and defened at a moment when that person’s life is supposed to be being honored. It is sad that you find such an uplifting, loving, decent thing so offputting becasue you disagree with the politics of the speaker. And it is even sadder that youd deign to lecture people on how they should and should not express their grief, as if you were some grand inquistor of ettiquette, the holder of the One True Flame of Appropriate Grief.
In the words of MLK:
#17 by Ted at February 8th, 2006
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kevin,
Bush spoke. I assume he was invited to speak. Thus he is “friends and family”. So Carter spoke out against “friends and family” at the funeral. rant, rant, rant.
Note: I actually have no problem with what Carter said or the forum. My only problem is with your post and its kevinesque reliance on questionable sources as basis of fact (the links), its radical assumptions (”the right wing trots out in what appears t be a sure to grow smear campaign”), the intentional distortion of tthe truth (implying McCain criticized the family), and the absurd hypotheticals (”It would be a travesty if her friends and family…were compelled by Republican party to refrain form celebrating her life and her struggle however they saw fit”).
#18 by Dawn at February 8th, 2006
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Kevin, you’re absolutely right. People screaming politics at her family and friends at her funeral are acting like crass buffoons. And you shouldn’t have to include in every post the disclaimer that you know that the first ammendment exists. Anyone who would mistake a blog post for a proposed piece of legislation might want to take a few basic internet classes, get a grip, and move on. And to the people who want to tell others how they should honor their dearly departed famous political activist loved ones? I hereby invoke my first ammendment right to tell them to mind their own business.
#19 by Dawn at February 8th, 2006
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Oh, and please do continue with your kevinesque tendencies to skewer the right wingers when they deserve it. I love it when you hit a nerve
#20 by kevin at February 8th, 2006
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“Bush spoke. I assume he was invited to speak. Thus he is “friends and family”. So Carter spoke out against “friends and family” at the funeral. rant, rant, rant.”
Thats an interesting interpretation. Bush and Carter wer eboth invited to speak, both spoke about what they thought Kings legacy meant and how that legacy should be continued (I assume Bush did that — its pretty standard for political eulogies) The problem is not them, it is the people who want to dictate to them how to behave.
“problem is with your post and its kevinesque reliance on questionable sources as basis of fact (the links), its radical assumptions (”the right wing trots out in what appears t be a sure to grow smear campaign”), the intentional distortion of tthe truth (implying McCain criticized the family), and the absurd hypotheticals”
cool, I have my own word!
the right wing did trot out such a spectacle - -it wa son all the tlak radio shows and most of te right wing tv shows. It was on Drudge before the funeral was even over. Some radical assumption, huh.
The McCain criticism seems to me to be splitting hairs — you noticed I included freinds — which Carter can reaosnably claim to be — in the post.
And what, exactly is factually incorrect in those links? or do you automatically assume anything from a lefty site is a lie?
#21 by Ted at February 8th, 2006
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Dawn: “Kevin, you’re absolutely right. People screaming politics at her family and friends at her funeral are acting like crass buffoons”
Oops. Liberals were talking politics at the funeral. I don’t think they were crass buffoons though. They were expressing views that are most likely consistent with the Kings’ views so I don’t see the problem.
#22 by Dawn at February 8th, 2006
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Ted, I’m confused. Did you think I was criticizing the people at the funeral? I was calling the people who were judging and accusing the family and friends attending her funeral. Not the people AT the funeral. Your reply to me makes no sense.
#23 by Mike S at February 8th, 2006
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The real question is why does Bush insist on engaging in policies that provoke this kind of behavior from good-natured people? Let’s attack the root of the problem here. If the man displayed even a modicum of competence and a willingness to listen to more than just sycophants and pre-screened supporters, it would not be necessary to lecture him at a funeral. He has only himself to blame. Of course, I say this more in sorrow than anger.
#24 by Fred at February 8th, 2006
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Mike S: provoke this kind of behavior from good-natured people?
Fred: LOL Good-natured? That’s a good one. Thanks for the laugh. The Bush haters are some of the most bad-natured people on the face of the earth.
#25 by Dawn at February 8th, 2006
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Why, just the other day, I was thinking “Lean Left wouldn’t be the same without Fred’s good natured, calming presence. It sure would be a shame if he stopped hanging out around here. What a sweetheart!”. I’m crushed, Fred.
#26 by Mike S at February 8th, 2006
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Relax Fred, I’m only half serious. But you don’t seem to understand the difference between irrational hate, like the right wing response to the Clintons, and acute criticism of a president’s policies and actions, as is the case with the vast majority of so-called Bush haters. When you make colossal mistakes that result in the deaths of tens of thousands of people, don’t be surprised if you are harshly criticised, even at a funeral.
#27 by Fred at February 8th, 2006
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Mike S: But you don’t seem to understand the difference between irrational hate, like the right wing response to the Clintons, and acute criticism of a president’s policies and actions, as is the case with the vast majority of so-called Bush haters.
Fred: Another good one. Irrational hate? You should do stand up.
#28 by Ted at February 8th, 2006
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Dawn,
I apologize that my post confused you. When you wrote “People screaming politics at her family and friends at her funeral” I thougt you meant people screaming politics at her family and friends at her funeral. I am not aware of any “screaming politics” related to this (overblown) incident other than the remarks at the funeral.
If you are saying that when a person states that another person is acting inappropiately by talking politics at a funeral they are “screaming politics”, then I admit I can’t keep up.
#29 by Dawn at February 8th, 2006
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Ted, I didn’t construct that sentence very well. I meant that they were hurling the accusation of politicizing the event at the people participating in the funeral. I’m sorry for the confusion.
#30 by Ted at February 8th, 2006
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Dawn,
then we are in agreement. Anyone who is hurling the accusation of politicizing the event at the people participating in the funeral is indeed a crass buffoon.
My focus here has been on McCain and Carter. I’m Ok with Carter’s action, and while McCain is entitled to his opinion, I think he should have kept his mouth shut on the matter. I will need to read his comments to see how far out of bounds he was. I hope he only mentioned Carter, if he spoke of the family, then he really blew it in my opinion.
Kevin: I do not assume everything on lefty blogs are lies. or true. Same with any blog. Commentary is not reporting. I don’t rely on commentary for facts. Especially in light of the common practice of blogging other blogs. Inaccurate information can spin out of control pretty darn quickly. I like to see the unfiltered facts and then formulate an opinion. I sense that on many blogs, the opinion is formed and then a search begins to find supporting blogs, which in turn are presented as facts - or at least reinforcement.
So, in this specific case, had you provided links to the actual comments made by McCain (I am unintersted in the other individual), I would have found the links informative. For what it’s worth. No need to let me know yours is not to meet my expectations. I offer this as explanation, not as a request.