Dissent is a Requirement
Aug 31
We live in a democracy. That means that we rule ourselves; we do not have leaders, we have representatives. And that means that debate must take place vigorously and constantly. The more important the issue, the more vital loud and vigorous debate becomes. Donald Rumsfeld doesn’t seem to understand that. To him, people criticizing his conduct or the assumptions that underpin his decisions on the war on terror or in Iraq are the equivalent of appeasers or of being morally confused. The media, well, it tells “myths” that weaken our national resolve. Lies, of course, but lies designed to force critics to stop criticizing.
The confusion is on Rumsfeld’s end — he seems to have forgotten what country he is supposed to represent. Others have not:
Mr. Rumsfeld’s remarkable speech to the American Legion yesterday demands the deep analysis—and the sober contemplation—of every American.
For it did not merely serve to impugn the morality or intelligence — indeed, the loyalty — of the majority of Americans who oppose the transient occupants of the highest offices in the land. Worse, still, it credits those same transient occupants — our employees — with a total omniscience; a total omniscience which neither common sense, nor this administration’s track record at home or abroad, suggests they deserve.
Dissent and disagreement with government is the life’s blood of human freedom; and not merely because it is the first roadblock against the kind of tyranny the men Mr. Rumsfeld likes to think of as “his” troops still fight, this very evening, in Iraq.
It is also essential. Because just every once in awhile it is right and the power to which it speaks, is wrong.
… Although I presumptuously use his sign-off each night, in feeble tribute, I have utterly no claim to the words of the exemplary journalist Edward R. Murrow.
But never in the trial of a thousand years of writing could I come close to matching how he phrased a warning to an earlier generation of us, at a time when other politicians thought they (and they alone) knew everything, and branded those who disagreed: “confused” or “immoral.”
Thus, forgive me, for reading Murrow, in full:
“We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty,” he said, in 1954. “We must remember always that accusation is not proof, and that conviction depends upon evidence and due process of law.
“We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason, if we dig deep in our history and our doctrine, and remember that we are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate, and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular.”
Dissent is patriotism; it is our primary obligation; it is the thing that guarantees freedom and liberty. Dissent is everything in a free country, as important to its survival as blood and oxygen are to yours.
In stark terms, it is time to choose. Rumsfeld wants a country in which dissent is silenced, where the population simply sits down, shuts up and prays that the Leaders are up to the task. Intruding upon those Leaders with questions and criticism weakens the country’s will. Obermann and Murrow want and wanted what we have always had or strived to have: a nation of adults choosing for themselves the direction of the country, no matter how serious the issue or how grave the hour. So choose: will you be one of Rumsfeld’s children or one of Murrow’s adults?
#1 by Fred at August 31st, 2006
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Dissent is not patriotism if it is based on lies.
#2 by Ted at August 31st, 2006
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Kevin,
I agree with you. For completeness, I would add that in certain instances, the President does have to act as a leader (Lincoln, FDR) and do what’s best for the country even in the face of massive public dissent. Invading Iraq certainly does not qualify as one of those times.
And, there are times when it is best if dissenters temporarily silence themselves for the public good (WWII). With heavy emphasis on the voluntary nature of the suppression.
#3 by tgirsch at August 31st, 2006
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Ted:
there are times when it is best if dissenters temporarily silence themselves for the public good
I don’t think I agree with this. Injustice is injustice, and it should be spoken out against wherever and whenever it happens. If you believe a grave wrong is being committed, you shouldn’t have to “wait for a better time” to bring it up.
But then I’ve never bought the ridiculous idea that dissent at home somehow gives aid and comfort to the enemy. Frankly, I doubt the enemy gives a rat’s backside what the American people think about the war.
#4 by Fred at September 1st, 2006
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tg: But then I’ve never bought the ridiculous idea that dissent at home somehow gives aid and comfort to the enemy. Frankly, I doubt the enemy gives a rat’s backside what the American people think about the war.
Fred: You’ve got to be kidding or extremely gullible. Of course, our enemies in Iraq find comfort in knowing that you and other liberals are calling for us to cut and run. If they think public opinion in the U.S. will force us to abandon the Iraqi people to the terrorists, they will just bide their time and wait until the good people of Iraq are defenseless and then take over. Sometimes it is hard to believe that you really believe what you post.
#5 by janusz at September 1st, 2006
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Fred wrote: “Of course, our enemies in Iraq find comfort in knowing that you and other liberals are calling for us to cut and run.”
I guess by “our enemies” you mean the insurgency, who I think are the former Baathist, the Sunni’s, correct? So that should make the Shiites our allies. But wait, the Shiites have militia’s who are setting car bombs, killing Sunni’s and attacking American troops, so they must be our enemies as well! So I guess both Sunni’s and Shiites who have militias and are setting car bombs, killing each other, attacking American troops and otherwise trying to dsrupt the newly-elected government must be our enemies. But wait, many members of the newly-elected governing bodies have much stronger allegiances to their tribes/ethnic/religious groups than to the nation state, and many are openly supportive of the militias and frankly would love to see Iraq either under their control or divided up. So are they our enemies? They’re part of the new government, but support the militias or dividing the state. Well, by the good people of Iraq you must mean the man in the street who doesn’t belong to the militias/insurgency and are often victims of the current violence. But wait, do they have stronger allegiances to the nation-state or to their ethnic/religious group…
A big part of the problem is that our “enemies” in Iraq are as murky as Bush’s goals. You write as if our “enemies” are a unified group with common goals. The current violence is only polarizing the groups, and there seems to be less and less common ground. There are newly-elected representatives who are openly hostile to the new government. It certainly doesn’t help that Bush’s stated goal of bringing “democracy” to the region (by which I believe him to mean some sort of representative system) will require considerably more money, manpower and time than I think he’s willing to commit. In order to build a political culture that has currency among Iraqis in order to develop representative government, you will have to pacify the country (fratricidal warfare and democracy don’t mix), rebuild the infastructure (representative government has historically rooted in stable areas with a strong middle class), and take years to build allegiance to the central state and and have Iraqis buy into concepts we take for granted (a loyal opposition, compromise to build consensus, rights of the minorities, limitations of government and yes, the right to dissent). That will take considerably more resources than we’ve thrown into the region so far. “Liberals” are not asking to “cut and run”, but rather want an Iraqi policy that is clear, with attainable goals, that the Iraqis will buy into. So far we’ve seen alot of jargon (”let freedom reign!”), and policy that is clearly not working. If you want to rebuild Iraq, it will require alot more money/resources. You’re not willing spend our tax dollars rebuilding New Orleans, are you willing to spend considerably more to rebuild a country?
You can’t be serious when you suggest we curb one of the pillars of our system, the right to dissent. We do that, the “enemies” of representative government win. In the face of failed policy, it is not only a right, but an obligation to demand change.
To quote one of our favorite shills for the Republicans, “Good Grief!”
#6 by Fred at September 1st, 2006
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Jan: You can’t be serious when you suggest we curb one of the pillars of our system, the right to dissent. We do that, the “enemies” of representative government win.
Fred: I haven’t suggested that your right to dissent be curbed. Quit making up things.
I encourage the leftists in the country to speak out and make all the noise you can. When you do that, it benefits those who back our country. Sensible people will be turned off by the shrill lies. The GOP should pay to have rallies featuring the cut and run democrats and broadcast the comments of the loons on the left. Of course, that would be a dirty trick. Cindy Sheehan has been a boon to our cause. Keep up the good work. Thanks.
It is the left who is trying to curb speech. Look at the reaction to Rumsfeld’s speeches.
#7 by Ted at September 1st, 2006
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tgirsh, dissent is not limited to grave wrongs. (The gravity of a wrong often being up for debate.) I am a firm believer in the importance of morale and team spirit. A group of people unified by purpose and acting towards a common goal are more effective than a group with disparate goals and purpose. To a degree, dissent does weaken resolve. In general, I believe the benefits of dissent, or more precisely the ability to dissent, outweigh the drawbacks, but in extreme cases my position reverses. When a country is in a life or death struggle, as was the case in WWII, I would be in favor of a temporary reduction in dissent. At the other end of the spectrum of human endeavor, why do NFL teams keep shedding Terrell Owens if his dissent does not more than offset his on-field contributions? (Perhaps I have mired myself in the mundane with the TO example, but I offer it to illustrate the spectrum across which I find dissent to be a double-edged sword.)
I am extrapolating your stated position a bit, but if morale does not play a key component in protracted warfare, then military history is littered with examples of wasted or even counter-productive activity. Activities where the sole objective was to diminish the morale of the foe. (I understand that your position might be that dissent does not effect morale rather than morale is of no consequence.)
#8 by Fred at September 1st, 2006
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Ted: “When a country is in a life or death struggle, as was the case in WWII, I would be in favor of a temporary reduction in dissent.”
Fred: Many of the dissenters in WWII did not believe we were in a life or death struggle (sound familiar?). After all, Germany had not attacked us. Japan was more of a danger to other nations than they were with us. Their attack on Pearl Harbor was so that the US would not be able to stop its goals of dominating Asia. There goal was not to occupy or destroy the US mainland. At least, that was the reasoning of the dissenters. For the good of the world, thank goodness that the dissenters didn’t prevail.
#9 by Janusz at September 1st, 2006
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Ted wrote: “And, there are times when it is best if dissenters temporarily silence themselves for the public good (WWII). With heavy emphasis on the voluntary nature of the suppression.”
Ted, did most dissenters as a whole agree to remain silent during WWII? (That’s an honest question, I’ve never heard one way or the other). Is such a thing even possible? How could you achieve such consensus in a large population? Or were people opposed to the war such a small minority as to be statistically insignificant? If it is even possible, who determines which cause is worthy of such support? (Given the latest polls, clearly Iraq, as you stated, is not one of them).
Fred wrote: “I encourage the leftists in the country to speak out and make all the noise you can. When you do that, it benefits those who back our country.”
Fred!! You finally agree that those on the left, those opposed to the Bush administration’s misguided policies are actually the people who back our country! It sounds like you’re finally seeing the light (or are you just channelling Barbara Jordan?)
#10 by tgirsch at September 1st, 2006
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Ted:
I would argue that if dissent harms “team spirit,” then the responsibility lies not with the dissenters to keep quiet, but with the media not to exaggerate it, as they often do. And if the dissent truly is widespread rather than a few vocal critics (as in Vietnam), then you’ve probably got much bigger problems than “team spirit” to cope with (namely that the resolve that’s being weakened may well be misplaced).
From where I sit, war is an ugly, ugly thing, and there are going to be body bags coming home. So you’d better be sure going in that the public is going to view the cause as worth those casualties before you go in. Hint: If you need a spin-heavy sales job to buy public opinion, that support won’t survive the body bags.
I don’t believe, as some seem to, that the modern American public is incapable of supporting a protracted war. We just have to believe in the cause we’re fighting for, and that the fight actually advances that cause. I think you’ll agree that our adventures in Iraq fail that latter part miserably. Americans by and large didn’t support the Iraq war because Saddam was a bad guy or because he’d violated UN resolutions or for pie-in-the-sky dreams of “spreading democracy.” They supported it because they wanted to get at the perpetrators of 9/11 and perhaps prevent another one. When the general public learned that Iraq advanced neither of those goals, that’s when support evaporated.
Man, how did I get off on that tangent? Oh, because today, war supporters tend to blame the dissent and paint it as inherently bad rather than take a long, hard look at the fact that the dissent is warranted.
In any case, I’m not arguing that morale is unimportant, nor am I arguing that dissent doesn’t effect morale. I’m just saying that the only way dissent seriously effects morale is if there’s a lot of it, and probably the only way you get a lot of it is when the injustice is grave or when things are going quite poorly; in either of those cases, I’d argue that there are much bigger morale issues than the dissent itself.
Fred:
If they think public opinion in the U.S. will force us to abandon the Iraqi people to the terrorists
Hate to break it to you, but we “abandoned the Iraqi people to the terrorists” the day we rolled in with far too few troops and far too little planning and left a power vacuum. Al-Qaeda could hardly have asked for a bigger favor than our invasion of Iraq. They now have a new training ground where they were previously most unwelcome, and a whole lot of newly-disillusioned willing recruits as an added bonus.
Many of the dissenters in WWII did not believe we were in a life or death struggle (sound familiar?). After all, Germany had not attacked us. Japan was more of a danger to other nations than they were with us.
Got any evidence that people were actually making those claims? Or did you just make that all up?
#11 by Fred at September 2nd, 2006
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tg: They now have a new training ground where they were previously most unwelcome,
Fred: Thanks for the laugh.
#12 by Fred at September 2nd, 2006
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TG: Got any evidence that people were actually making those claims?
Fred: I don’t have the time or the desire to do your homework for you, but here would be a good place to start: http://www.charleslindbergh.com/americanfirst/index.asp
I assume you know how to use google.com to find things on the internet.
#13 by Steve Plonk at September 2nd, 2006
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Sheik, the Bomber
By Steve Plonk
Obab, the arab,
The sheik with
Bombing plans—
He brought his “mylanta”
And “grape fanta”
All the way from Samarkand.
He looked to the left,
He looked to the right,
Kept his liquid
Hidden in his hand,
To bomb that plane flight—
Obab, the arab,
The sheik with
Bombing plans—
He planned to mix
Liquids together
In a plastic bag,
To put it in his shoe,
Then to strike the “bic”
& light the wick,
To see what it would do—
Obab, the arab,
The sheik with
Bombing plans—
Closer to Georgia, USA,
The plane leveled out
Through skies
Of crystalline blue,
Then a brain-flash,
Came over the horizon,
And all those folks
By scenario flew—
* * *
Obab, the arab,
Was dreaming of
Mama Roux,
With bombing
Plans to do—
Then the same night Obab
Woke up in the flight from
His dreams of glory– ooh, oooh!
And realized with his own eyes
The bomb was still in his shoe…
The sky marshall, Nick,
Saw the protruding wick,
Sticking out from Obab’s shoe,
So Obab was busted,
In chains intrusted,
Until the flight was through.
Landed in Atlanta’s Hartsfield
With every reporter in the field,
Flashing cameras at the pair,
As sky marshall, Nick,
Had Obab in tow—
A sky sheik on the TV air,
With dynamite flair, a show!—
Obab, the arab,
The sheik with the
Bombing Plans—
Had shackles on his ankles
And cuffs upon his hands—
Sheik’s shoes were confiscated,
As the bomb squad waited
To defuse that liquid mess—
The sheik was loud and foolhardy,
Like a manic ole smarty,
Proud to give the “po-poes” a confess.
Obab, the arab, was booked by the
Homeland Security man,
Obab, the arab, nabbed far away
From Samarkand.
#14 by tgirsch at September 6th, 2006
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Fred:
You call that “evidence of people making those claims?” You’ve proven that there were dissenters, a fact that I never disputed. You’ve even shown that at least one of them (Lindbergh) was prominent. But far from claiming that “Japan was more of a danger to other nations than they were to us,” after the attack on Pearl Harbor, Lindbergh asked to be reinstated in the armed forces, and ultimately flew several combat missions against the Japanese, according to your link.
So when asked to provide evidence for the claims you made, you linked a site that utterly fails to do so, and even contradicts you in many ways. Good thing I did my own homework in college — if I’d let you do it, I would have flunked out.