Refusing to Negotiate With North Korea is a Sign of Weakness
by KevinOctober 10th, 2006
Glenn Greenwald has a great post today highlighting the irrational opposition to any negotiations with North Korea. Too many on the right wing seems to see the entire world as nothing more than a comic book, where the super hero of American Military Might will rush in and save the day. Talking is a game for weaklings, according to them — real men blow shit up.
Except that they don’t. Military action has to be a last resort because its outcome is impossible to determine. The death and humiliation caused by the easy victory today lead to the war or insurrection tomorrow. The image of dead children and bombed hospitals makes the rest of the world less and less willing to go along with you on anything else. Resorting first to military means tells the world three rather unpleasant things about you: you don’t care about the cost in blood to others, you aren’t bright enough to find another way out of the mess, and you lack the strength of will to see the longer game of diplomacy through to the end.
That last option is what is so infuriating about this nonsensical notion that negotiating with North Korea is somehow appeasement. Putting aside the fact that a military strike on North Korea is impossible for a variety of reason — not the least of which is the fact that the Iraqi war has destroyed our nation’s ability to fight a ground war for the foreseeable future — the results of the last few years should demonstrate that negotiation works pretty well. Clinton got North Korea to put aside the most promising route to nuclear weapons for six years. Negotiations by the British and the Bush Administration got Libya to give up their nuclear weapons programs. Negotiations by the UN and the French got inspectors on the ground in Iraq before the invasion. Military force got a failed state in Iraq, increased the power of Iran in the region, more terrorists, the loss of American prestige and the degradation of American prestige.
North Korea is not Nazi Germany. It is a tiny little nothing of a country, weak, poor, and continually on the verge of collapse. The leaders of North Korea want what most dictators wants: to die peacefully in their beds. They have every incentive to deal with us. If we have the patience to do so, negotiations can end their nuclear weapons ambitions, lay the groundwork for the kind of contacts that helped bring down the Soviet Block, and position the democracies in the region to better manage North Korea’s inevitable decline and fall. This route will take patience the strength of character to see through a difficult job with no immediate gratification. Unwillingness to negotiate is an admission that a country does not have the resources or patience or mature political structure necessary to see through long term projects: it is a sign, in other words, of a kind of national weakness.
The fact that so many people on the right prefer bluster to hard work is a depressing sign of that weakness The fact that their political and intellectual leaders share that preference is a scary one.
Categories: Iraq, North Korea, Politics |
I’d say it is a sign of stupidity, or at least ignorance..
Let’s send in Jimmy Carter. After all, he did so well last time.
*** Clinton got North Korea to put aside the most promising route to nuclear weapons for six years.****
Yeah, you guys run with that one as you ponder the color of the sky in your world.
Yeah, you guys run with that one as you ponder the color of the sky in your world.
Well, it’s true. I mean, it just IS. Did North Korea acquire a nuclear weapon during the Clinton Administration? There’s only one answer: “No”.
Reasonable people can disagree about what the Clinton Administration should have done viz-a-viz NoKo, just as they can regarding what the Bush Administration should have done viz-a-viz NoKo. But the proof is in the pudding. North Korea became a nuclear power under Bush’s watch, period. And Bush’s ostrich policy didn’t work.
Let’s see: We signed an agreement in 1994 stating that N. Korea would give up its nuclear program in exchange for aid. In 2002, we discover they didn’t live up to their end of the bargain.
Where were you for those 6 years Billy boy??? Maybe you should have spent more time holding N. Korea accountable and less time abusing your power with interns in the Oval Office.
Oh yeah, Billy boy, where’d N. Korea get all of the money to build uranium bonds? Oh yeah. He used the money we sent him to buy food for his people.
Yeah, diplomacy has worked GREAT so far.
I’ve got an even better idea. Let’s send Albright back over there and have her give ANOTHER basketball signed by Michael Jordan to Kim Jong Il.
THIS was Clinton’s pathetic excuse for “diplomacy.”
Clinton and his traitor envoy Carter are the ones who helped N. Korea get the nuclear materials. They were so stupid as to think that communists could be trusted to keep their word.
So “Hmmmm” and “Fred”, you sign up for your tour of duty yet? Ready to commit yourselves and your children and their children to endless war as far as the eye can see? Go back to Right Wing News where you can all circle-jerk over the latest dead Iraqi pictures and leave those of us with common sense and a real view of the world alone.
This just in, nutters:
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/10/rumsfeld-abb/
Seems that while Clinton was doing “nothing” to prevent Lil’ Kim from getting nukes, Donny Rumsfeld was actually selling them to him.
“Rumsfeld was a non-executive director of ABB, a European engineering giant based in Zurich, when it won a $200m contract to provide the design and key components for the (North Korean) reactors. The current defense secretary sat on the board from 1990 to 2001, earning $190,000 a year.”
See how reality keeps interfering with your 7-year-old view of the world? Here’s another one: Santa is just your parents putting presents under the tree after your asleep! Shocker!!! Oh no, your world-view is all a lie!!!
“The leaders of North Korea want what most dictators wants: to die peacefully in their beds.”
Thank you Kevin for setting the record straight, now I can sleep better at night. From now on when I want to know what the North Korean leaders are thinking I’ll go straight to you.
“The leaders of North Korea want what most dictators wants: to die peacefully in their beds.”
Uhhh.. wait now… They have a funny way of showing it.
JT:
When are you ever going to learn that everything bad is Clinton’s fault? N. Korea’s nukes are Clinton’s fault, just like Iraq was Clinton’s fault, just like 9/11 was Clinton’s fault, just like the Yankees’ collapse this year was Clinton’s fault (although I’d argue that this is good). Obesity is Clinton’s fault. GM and Ford’s current financial woes are Clinton’s fault. E. Coli on Spinach is Clinton’s fault. In fact, I’m pretty sure Clinton’s responsible for prostate cancer, the crystal meth epidemic, and Survivor: Cook Islands, too.
Oh, and lest I forget to mention it, the Dow hitting record levels is thanks to George W. Bush. Ditto for the cuteness of puppies, the fullness of Angelina Jolie’s lips, and the invention of the hands-free cellular phone.
***”Oh, and lest I forget to mention it, the Dow hitting record levels is thanks to George W. Bush.****
No, it isn’t, and no one has said it.
This is the part where you guys revisit where you gave the credit for the Dow boom in the late 90s, though.
I’ve got 16 years in the Corps. What the hell have you ever done for this country JT, other than bitch and moan. How about you get off your pansy ass and contribute something worthwhile. Are YOU ready to step up to the plate and defend this country from those who want to destroy us, or are you just going to run and hide like always and leave that task to guys like me, the ones you then turn and denigrate.
Don’t worry. I’ll keep protecting trash like you, even if you don’t deserve it.
N. Korea acquired materials, financing and technology for the nuclear program under Clinton’s watch. It’s documented proof.
The planning for 9/11 began in 1996. Remind me again who was President at the time?
You revisionist liberals suffer so much from BDS, it would be laughable if it weren’t so pathetic. No matter what you’d LIKE to think, the FACT is that Clinton screwed up big-time, and we’re paying the price now for his failures.
(When are you ever going to learn that everything bad is Clinton’s fault? )
When are Clintonistas going to learn that some things actually are Clinton’s fault? Quit excusing his actions and lack of actions.
Hmmm
Just in case you aren’t just a lying hack, here are some facts:
“Failure” =1994-2002 — Era of Clinton ‘Agreed Framework’: No plutonium production. All existing plutonium under international inspection. No bomb.
“Success” = 2002-2006 — Bush Policy Era: Active plutonium production. No international inspections of plutonium stocks. Nuclear warhead detonated.
Face it. They ditched an imperfect but working policy. They replaced it with nothing. Now North Korea is a nuclear state.
[Comment edited by tgirsch to take you directly to the relevant facts. Via Talking Points Memo.]
Man, have you got issues. So you were in the Corps? You think that gives you the right to denigrate all us civvies who were always allowed to read newspapers, watch real TV news? Excuse us for making up our own minds whether we decide whether sending our fighting men and women to die for a politician’s half-assed plot is worth it.
In case you forgot our military suffered over 169,000 casualties fighting North Korea, not because they were strong, but because we wouldn’t deal with the Chinese. They attacked in defense of NoKo because we represented a threat to them. That’s what MacArthur and his cowboy mouth got us.
I’m glad you served in the Corps. You might even have been billeted in Pusan, where my family lived under the freedom you helped provide. But don’t think for one second we civvies ever forget the menace in Pyongyang, or that real people get hurt when thinking stops.
Kevin,
Either you’re a bald-faced liar, or extremely ignorant. North Korea started secretly enriching uranium in 1996 with help from Pakistan. This is fact. When confronted with this in 2002, North Korea admitted as such. For 4 years Clinton dropped the ball, yet you want to exonerate him. Fine. I won’t.
Zardov,
It seems you’re the one with issues. Might want to seek some help. Yep, you’ve got the freedom to make up your own mind. You’re welcome for that, by the way. In many other countries you wouldn’t even have any information with which to make a judgment. I’m willing to die so others in this world can enjoy the same freedom. The people in Iraq deserve it. The people of North Korea deserve it. The people of Iran deserve it. The people in too many countries to count in Africa deserve it. I’m willing to put my life on the line for them so they can live as I do, in freedom. You’re willing to bitch on the internet. Therein lies the difference.
Appeasement doesn’t work. It didn’t work with North Korea under Clinton, and it won’t work now. What exactly do you think Il did with the money we sent them, money that supposedly was to feed his people? He bought uranium. Yeah, let’s continue Clinton’s MASTERFUL strategy. After all, it worked so well before.
I’m confused. Bush has been in office for almost six years and the current actions of Korea are to be blamed on Clinton? But Clinton was in office for only 8 years, so at least 3/4ths of the blame should therefore be pushed back on Bush One. But he was in office for only 4 years, so he is blameless. When does an administration become responsible?
Ted, they’re both to blame. Clinton allowed North Korea to enrich uranium under his watch. His administration gave them money which they used to purchase uranium. We are paying for his failure.
Bush’s harsh line toward North Korea has obviously contributed to this as well. The partisan hacks who are so blindly loyal to their “party” that they can’t see their own failures are the ones who come off looking utterly assinine in all this.
By your reasoning, planning for 9/11 began in 1996. Bush was only in office for 8 months. Therefore, 9/11 is about 85% Clinton’s fault. Do you really want to go down that road?
Hmmm, sorry, I assumed you were defending Bush in this. I’m with you in saying both administrations failed to control NoKo. We will never know if anyone (in the West)or any policy could have changed the course NoKo has chosen. However, I do believe that it is always worthwhile to keep communication channels open. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
And yes, in rough terms, I do think the Clinton administration deserves as much or more blame than the Bush administration wrt 9/11. However, I also believe there was a significant paradigm shift the morning of 9/11 - similar to the one on December 7 - and thus it is mostly irrelevant who did or didn’t do what before that date. What matters is what has been done since.
(When does an administration become responsible?)
Never, if you are a Clintonista ankle-grabber referring to the 8 years of Clinton.
As Clinton might say, “The buck never got here.”
All you all are oversimplifying a very complex negotiation which went on through several administrations. There is no one to blame but the North Koreans. They have supposedly exploded an underground atomic weapon and thumbed their nose at the diplomatic process and the United Nations. In order to dismantle their program, they are trying to blackmail the richer and more peaceful nations such as Japan, into giving them massive aid. If China doesn’t step into the diplomatic fray, the Koreans will encourage countries like Iran who may already be doing the same type run-around.
“There is no one to blame but the North Koreans.”
There is a novel concept, actually blaming the perpetrators for their actions.