From Gray To Green
Posted by
tgirsch
The indie paper from my original home town of Milwaukee has this nice piece on the little things that city is doing to become more green. It’s worth a read.
On question I have, however, is this: A lot of what’s being done involves using porous hardscape materials and green roofs in an effort to reduce stormwater runoff. But what happens when it gets cold, and water freezes? Are you at increased risk of buckling, cracking, etc., or are these designed with the cold in mind to somehow avoid these problems? I’d have to think the latter, given the harsh winters up there, but I just don’t see how.
given the winters in the northwoods, you’ll get buckling and cracking no matter what you pave the roads with… maybe the town partly wants to see if the increase is enough to worry about, or is simply worth it. though the article talks about a “green roof” in words that sound like somebody has planted an eight-inch-thick layer of turf on the roof with grass. if that’s true, i’d love to know how it handles a good load of snow in winter, and how it is anchored from washing away in spring.
Comment 4/20/2007
Its not actually the freezing cycle that causes problems for pervious concretes. There have been a number of studies that suggest (though not conclusively) that a pervious concrete structure/pad will have roughly the same resistance to freezing cycle damage as normal concrete. What pervious concrete really lacks is abrasion resistance. Repeat snowplowing tends to really rip it up. That is what typically has prevented it from wider use in highway paving or parking lots in colder climates. And that something thats not easily fixable. The lack of sand in pervious concrete provides the pervious properties. Its also what robs it of its abrasion resistance.
Which is too bad. Milwaukee desperately needs a good solution for stormwater runoff problems.
Comment 4/20/2007
pretty much every american town needs a better stormwater solution, Ivan. where i live, most heavy rainstorms mean the downtown beach (sort of like what Chicago’s got along the lake shore, except on a much smaller scale) gets closed, because the sewage plant overflows…
Comment 4/20/2007
Tgirsch,
The green roofs are installed over an impervious water barrier, typically a built-up hot applied fluid material and in some cases a membrane combined with the fluid material. So the water/ice sits atop this barrier and does not impact the roof.
The porous hardscape materials are not porous in a micro sense, but rather in a macro sense. The water is absorbed through large gaps in the material, down to a drainage bed. Think Swiss cheese.
It is interesting that these techniques are coming back into vogue. Back in the Sixties they gained some traction with the public, only to fade away along with tie dye. Let’s hope this time green has more staying power.
I just read that a large area of Australia is in such drought trouble that the gov’t is going to shut down all commercial crop irrigation if the drought is not mitigated within the next month. I guess the rationale is you die from thirst quicker than you die from hunger.
I imagine there will soon be pressure to shut down the roof hydro cooling that is used down under - assuming it is not already banned. My sister reports from Melbourne that all car washing, including commercial, has been prohibited for some time. And of course lawn watering has been prohibited for quite some time as well.
Comment 4/20/2007
More democrat hypocrisy:
Here’s what your manmade global warming advocates did….
From AP:
“A flock of small jets took flight from Washington Thursday, each carrying a Democratic presidential candidate to South Carolina for the first debate of the political season.
For Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton, Barack Obama, Chris Dodd and Joe Biden, it was wheels up shortly after they voted in favor of legislation requiring that U.S. troops begin returning home from Iraq in the fall.
No one jet pooled, no one took commercial flights to save money, fuel or emissions.”
How much pollution did all those private jets put into the atmosphere? Remember the global warming Chicken Little’s mantra: Do as I say do, not as I do.
It’s also interesting that the candidates violated the NAALCP’s boycott of SC regarding the Confederate flag. Of course, since they are important people they are given special dispensations that are not available to common folk.
Comment 4/27/2007
Fred:
Sheesh! And you gripe about us lying?
The NAACP has OK’ed the debates, noting that the SC boycott is a tourism boycott, and campaign stops do not constitute tourism.
Why does Fred lie so much? Or why is Fred so hypocritical that he only thinks it’s lying when others do it?
And as for hypocrisy, it only seems to bother you in people whose politics you don’t like. Sending others off to fight in a foreign war when you pulled favors to avoid fighting (or, in some cases, to avoid any type of service at all)? Why that’s just prudence. Flying on a private jet when you’re concerned about man-made global warming? Hypocrite!
Mind you, I’m not defending the hypocrisy of the Democrats on this; I’m merely pointing out that your outrage about hypocrisy is so selective as to be completely laughable.
Comment 4/27/2007
“The NAACP has OK’ed the debates, noting that the SC boycott is a tourism boycott, and campaign stops do not constitute tourism.”
The NAALCP has been all over the map on their boycott. The change the boycott for the situation. I guess since it is their boycott, they can change the rules as they want. However, it has not been just a tourism boycott. I live in SC and I am familiar with the history of the boycott. In the last presidential election, some democrat candidates stayed in private homes and ate in private homesin order to honor the boycott (I wonder where they thought the food came from). Why was it okay then and not okay now? Some went as far as to land their planes in NC and drive over into SC to avoid buying fuel for their private jets in SC. At the beginning of the boycott the NAALCP put people at welcome centers to tell people not to buy gas or eat on their way through the state. They have cowarded the NCAA into pulling athletic events out of SC. They have even held their annual meetings in GA.
Fortunately, the boycott has had little effect on the SC economy. It is a joke to most people. If you go to the tourist areas of the state, you will see people of all colors and varieties.
“Sending others off to fight in a foreign war when you pulled favors to avoid fighting (or, in some cases, to avoid any type of service at all)?”
Great hyperbole! If you can show me a post where I have ever advocated that, I will never post on this blog again.
Comment 4/27/2007
I guess since it is their boycott, they can change the rules as they want.
They absolutely can.
If you can show me a post where I have ever advocated that, I will never post on this blog again.
If you can show me where you’ve ever condemned it in our current leadership, I’ll never bring it up again.
Comment 4/27/2007
“If you can show me where you’ve ever condemned it in our current leadership, I’ll never bring it up again.”
Since I don’t know about what or about whom you are talking, I can’t respond. I’m sure that fertile imagination of yours will think up something.
Comment 4/29/2007