Proposed New Law
Posted by
tgirsch
I’d like to propose a new state law. Basically, I think that there are a lot of fraudulent gun purchases being made, and I want to put a stop to it. So here’s what I’m proposing:
- We create a statewide gun purchase registry. Anyone who wishes to buy a gun of any kind must register in advance.
- When a resident wants to buy a gun, they must show a state-issued photo identification.
- Anyone selling a gun must check the purchaser’s photo identification. The name and address on the ID must exactly match the statewide gun registration list. If it does not, the purchase must be refused.
This seems perfectly fair and reasonable to me. Nobody who is legally allowed to buy a gun today would be prevented from buying a gun under this law, and it would prevent fraudulent gun purchases from taking place.
Thoughts?
UPDATE: I’ve issued a correction.
[…] tgirsch’s proposed gun law. […]
Pingback 1/25/2008
It’s called a driver’s license dumbass and the instant check already works exactly like this - people are just free NOT to buy a gun.
I’ve got a better idea: Any adult we know can’t be trusted with a gun, we keep locked up. I mean, heaven forbid we restrict the criminals instead of the law-abiding…
Comment 1/25/2008
How about actually enforcing the tens of thousands of gun laws already on the books.
Although I suspect that trying to prevent criminals from breaking a law by passing a law against law breaking is probably not going to work out very well.
Comment 1/25/2008
Will the criminals have to register their guns when they steal them? Or is this just another stupid idea to hassle law abiding citizens that would have zero effect on criminals?
I’m voting for the latter.
Comment 1/25/2008
Sure. That’s pretty much exactly what Chicago and Wash. DC did. Then they closed the registration offices to new applications and started going after people who didn’t renew thiers since they already had the addresses handy. The same happened in New York w. “assault weapons”. You only had to register them until they banned them. Then they went door to door using the registry list.
TAAdAA! Defacto gun ban.
Comment 1/25/2008
We dont need anymore gun laws. The ones already on the books dont work to curb crime and this would’nt either. It’d just be another headache for us honest people.
Comment 1/25/2008
Captain Obvious:
STFU. State-issued photo identification works because not every state-issed photo id is a drivers license. You, my friend, are the dumbass.
Comment 1/25/2008
There are alternative state IDs, which are not Driver’s Licenses, usable in Texas that allow purchase of a firearm, but I don’t think F-Stop will like them: they are called Concealed Handgun Licenses.
TGirsch: I don’t see how would your registry prevent a straw purchaser, whose name and address are perfectly valid, from buying a gun and then transferring it illegally to Joe Criminal.
Is there any other purpose to your registry than to identify who owns firearms? I have purchased a firearm in a private party sale, at a gun show no less, and there was no legal requirement to “register” the purchase or the sale. Your registry would exist solely to identify some (not all) legal owners of firearms. It would do nothing to ID criminals or stop them from getting guns or stop criminals from using guns. So why bother with the added layer of paperwork, unless you have ulterior motives?
Comment 1/25/2008
Will this registration scheme be as cost-effective as the Canadian version?
Comment 1/25/2008
Hehe, no actually, Mike, i’m probably going to be getting a CCW sometime this year here in Tennessee. I’m probably as liberal as Kuchinich in many ways, but i’m a responsible gun owner as well. I just wanted to point out to Captain Obvious that there are more forms of ‘State-issued photo id’s’ than just a driver’s license.
As far as Tgirsch’s suggestion, unfortunately, I just think it’s another stopgap. We need to do better at addressing the root of the problems rather than not. But that takes will and is alot more difficult than making more rules that criminals don’t follow (Not trying to talk down to your suggestion, Tgirsch)
Comment 1/25/2008
* We create a statewide gun purchase registry. Anyone who wishes to buy a gun of any kind must register in advance.
In New Jersey we have this. It’s called a FOID. I’ve had mine since ‘75 (no address changes). It has your fingerprints on it, no photo.
* When a resident wants to buy a gun, they must show a state-issued photo identification.
…and now also to buy ammo.
* Anyone selling a gun must check the purchaser’s photo identification. The name and address on the ID must exactly match the statewide gun registration list. If it does not, the purchase must be refused.
…which they do and then do the mandatory NICS check anyway.
No more gun laws
Comment 1/25/2008
Actually Captain Obvious’ overt observation is perfectly correct as far as the NICS works, whether it’s one State’s driver’s license or another form of ID. It sounds like somebody has never purchased a retail firearm before and is completely unfamiliar with the forms and processes that are encountered.
Comment 1/25/2008
It’s obvious you have never bought a gun.
Any other Bill of Rights Amendments you would like to see modified?
Comment 1/25/2008
I do suspect ulterior motive…
Boost site visit stats! Nothing brings people out like gun posts.
I’m gonna listen to Nas’s, “I Gave You Power” when I get home tonight. That song’s the shit, and I haven’t listened to it in a long ass time, so thanks TG, for indirectly affecting my choice of hip hop this evening.
http://ohhla.com/anonymous/nas/written/power.nas.txt
Comment 1/25/2008
#’s 2 and 3 are already the law in most states. When I buy a gun the dealer runs my name through both the FBI criminal database and that of the state police.
Two forms of ID are required, both stating my name, address, age. There must be no discrepancies between the ID’s. I personally use my state issued Drivers License and a state-issued non-driver personal ID card (obtained at the DMV)
A gun registry? hmm how’s that going to work? Criminals, who are already prohibited from purchasing guns through legal dealers are purchasing them on the streets. Only those who don’t want to break the law will be included in the registry. Explain to me how that’ll have any impact on CRIMINALS and their ability to own guns? Besides, why the hell should the government know how many guns (and of what type) I own?
Comment 1/25/2008
Actually, it sounds like the exact opposite of NICS and undermines one of the major reasons that NICS was established rather than gun registration.
NICS is a database of who may NOT own guns…not who DESIRES to or DOES own guns. Therefore, it cannot be used later to collect all the guns once the government finishes it’s transition to totalitarianism. (Of course, the 4473 forms and the new BATFU approved computerized “bound book” that can be accessed by them at any time will give them a good head start when they get around to it).
One of the reasons that NICS was set up the way it was to alleviate concerns of the whole “stormtroopers at the door of registered gun owners” thing happening. That’s also why NICS check records are supposed to be destroyed and why 4473’s are not supposed to be collected by BATFU (unless the gun shop goes out of business).
Captain Obvious did make one excellent point. If a felon can’t be trusted with guns, how can they be trusted to own a car, a knife, a chainsaw, gasoline, baseball bat, tent stakes, propane tank, pointy sticks…
If someone is so inherently dangerous to society that they can’t be trusted around objects that can be used to kill, then I would submit that an ineffectual ban against owning firearms is the least of our worries with them.
Comment 1/25/2008
I’ve got a better idea. Empower People! Abolish all gun laws and let folks be free.
I can’t believe this guy wants to empower only the police and the Bush administration, but…there it is.
Comment 1/25/2008
You have a quote up on your left heading about royalty. Seems like you are against it…..now you want to make MORE little kings and potentates of anyone in the government.
Please let me remind you: serfs usually rebel. Power to the PEOPLE.
Comment 1/25/2008
digg, it might raise the hit count, but it also causes the signal to noise ratio to plummet.
Comment 1/25/2008
Is this some sarcastic argument against voter-id laws by analogy?
Comment 1/25/2008
I hold a BATFE (federal) firearms license, so I appreciate the opportunity to comment on your proposals.
“When a resident wants to buy a gun, they must show a state-issued photo identification.”
Your proposal here is already a federal law, as well as law in all 50 states. If someone violates this law, both the seller and the purchaser will serve time and be ineligible for life from possession of any firearm.
“Anyone selling a gun must check the purchaser’s photo identification.”
Not only is this also federal and state law, the state cannot circumvent this since every lawful sale must also go through the federal database. Again, you can violate this law, but only if you’d like to do some hard time and be barred for life from firearm possession.
When you finally realize that you can’t find anyone in America to sell you a gun without government-issued picture ID, let us know if they ‘check’ it.
“This seems perfectly fair and reasonable to me.”
Your ideas seem perfectly fair and reasonable to me, too, since what you propose is already long-standing law at the federal and state levels.
Thank you again for allowing me to comment, and I hope my thoughts have been useful to you.
Comment 1/25/2008
Okay, TG, why are you taunting SU’s readers?
Comment 1/26/2008
I question the basic premise - what makes you think there are a lot of fraudulent gun purchases being made?
Comment 1/26/2008
Uh, why does this remind me of Indiana’s voter ID law?
Comment 1/26/2008
Whoops - I see Stormy beat me to it. GMTA, I suppose.
Comment 1/26/2008
You really don’t believe what you wrote, do you? You just threw a grenade out in the open to see what would happen, right?
Comment 1/27/2008
[…] Oh, did I say buy a gun? I’m sorry, I meant vote. […]
Pingback 1/27/2008
You’re less than clever. You’re admitting you’ve neither purchased a firearm nor have you ever voted. Allow me to explain:
If voting were the same as purchasing firearms, you’d have to be 18 to vote in some elections, and 21 to vote in others; you’d have to take a literacy test, and then pay a steep poll tax to have your literacy test graded; the results would be entered into a federal database; when you decide to actually vote, they’d take your fingerprints and government-issued ID, and run you through a federal database to ensure you’re mentally competent to vote; and they’d hold the results for 10 days. If you were declined, they’d never, ever have to give you a reason. Upon being approved to vote, you’d have to show your government-issued photo ID again. Oh, and the best part? You could only vote for one issue or candidate every 30 days.
If purchasing firearms were the same as voting, you’d have to pinky-swear that you’re eligible to own one, prominent national politicians would be quietly asking if felons should be allowed to own guns, and the ACLU, NAACP, and MALDEF would be holding rallies if a single person were asked to show an ID to buy a gun. You’d also have federal investigations over why dead people, felons, and illegal aliens were buying guns, but the mass media would never run the story.
These isn’t a debate about the 2nd Amendment. This is me questioning your intellectual honesty.
Comment 1/27/2008
Heh … just as silly as the Gun license=driver’s license strawman.
I’m all for it. In most states, anyone ( even teenagers and felons ) can buy any car ( even “assault SUVs” ) with cash without ever showing ID, have it towed to their back 40, and turn cookies all freaking day without any kind of license whatsoever. They can even buy one over the internet if they can arrange it, and have the car shipped interstate.
Just pony up the cash.
A license and registration is only needed if you drive it on public property.
SO … there you go. Let’s make firearms ownership exactly the same as voting or owning a car. I.E., almost no regulation whatsoever.
Comment 1/27/2008
I would just like to add to “workinwifdakids” comment that, if voting in Washington State were like buying a gun in Washington State, any police officer with visual access to your vehicle’s license plate would be able to run your name through the state’s voting database and see who/what/which party you voted for throughout your lifetime of residence and then be legally able to enact a traffic stop based on what he found.
Build strawmen much, T?
Comment 1/28/2008
So what happens when idiot liberals like Spitzer get a law passed that allows illegals to obtain valid state driver’s licenses?? Aren’t those the same people were supposed to be KEEPING guns from??
You can add your “proposal” the other other 20,000 gun laws that are out there already not being adhered to by criminals.
I have a proposal: Let’s restrict the 1st Amendment rights of people who have no idea what they are talking about.
Comment 1/28/2008