Quote of the Day, 2008-03-14
Posted by
tgirsch
A fine example of IOKIYAR, summed up by TPM commenter EM:
What drives me crazy is how this could have been avoided so easily if Wright was the slightest bit media-savvy. Had he merely controlled his tongue and limited himself to advocating an attack on Iran to encourage massive worldwide Muslim attacks leading to a fulfillment of the biblical prophecy of end-times and bringing about Armageddon and the summary slaughter of every Jew, Muslim, Catholic, and non-believer on the planet while rapturing him and his flock up to heaven, then followed it up by denouncing Catholics as cult members and blaming Hurricane Katrina on gay people, this story wouldn’t be metastasizing like this. One five minute milquetoast repudiation by Obama and it would all be behind him.
But what does Wright do instead? He spews this vile “God damn America” bile. What a psycho.
Double-standard? What double-standard?!
Okay, so we might actually get a black or woman president this time. I wonder what century we’ll get one that repudicates mixing sky bullies with civil power.
Comment 3/15/2008
“What drives me crazy is how this could have been avoided so easily if Wright was the slightest bit media-savvy.”
No, this could have been avoided if Obama wasn’t a member and financial supporter of a racist hate-mongering church.
Comment 3/15/2008
The Reference
————-
Morris’s Head
Comment 3/15/2008
Dan M:
“Repudicates?” Oy!
Comment 3/15/2008
Tg, why the censorship?
Comment 3/15/2008
Tg, oops. Misread your post.
Comment 3/15/2008
Tg, why are you so reluctant to address the racism of Obama’s pastor and his hate for the nation Obama wants to lead?
Comment 3/15/2008
I have been a strong Obama supporter for quite some time, but have always feared that eventually something would come along that would galvanize the redneck element against him. Sadly, I believe this is it. I no longer think that Obama is a viable candidate in the general election. I am crushed.
A certain post by Digg quoting Churchill really sticks in my craw at this point…
Comment 3/15/2008
“have always feared that eventually something would come along that would galvanize the redneck element against him.”
This is another example of your bigotry. Does the racism of Obama’s spiritual leader not bother you? Instead of using pergorative language about those who raise the issue of Wright’s racism and hate for America, why not address the issue?
Comment 3/15/2008
Morris, you dumb shit. Christian leaders have been spewing hate and racism for 100’s of years. I am not overly concerned about a preacher in Chicago and what he said in his sermons. I disagree with some of the things he said, but that is not a national issue. How it impacts Barack Obama is the national issue. Because people like you will focus on the minister and forget that there is nothing - zero - that has been reported about Obama ever saying or acting in a similar manner.
Comment 3/15/2008
“How it impacts Barack Obama is the national issue. Because people like you will focus on the minister and forget that there is nothing - zero - that has been reported about Obama ever saying or acting in a similar manner.”
What a joke you are! And you call me dumb. You know good and well that who a person chooses as his spiritual advisor is important. Why would a person be a member of a local congregation if he doesn’t agree with the position of its pastor? This racist pastor has been an important part of Obama’s life fir 20 years.
You are a dishonest person if you think that this would not be important if McCain was the member of a racist local congregation where the preacher preached hate for American and for black people. Why are you defending Obama in his participation and financial support of a racist church?
Comment 3/15/2008
I’m not “reluctant” to address anything. Obama’s pastor is an idiot. There’s not a whole lot more I can say. I’m just not sure why there’s so much right-wing outrage over this, but they’re more than happy to look the other way when McCain sought out Hagee’s endorsement, and even appeared with him.
For what it’s worth, Wright has left the Obama campaign, and that’s as it should be.
You are a dishonest person if you think that this would not be important if McCain was the member of a racist local congregation where the preacher preached hate for American and for black people.
Ahem, Hagee? The point of this post? Ring any bells? Everything in that first paragraph of the quote at the very top refers to statements made by Hagee and Rod Parsley, whose endorsements McCain actually sought out.
Comment 3/15/2008
“Ahem, Hagee?”
Ahem, yourself. Hagee is not the pastor of McCain or a trusted advisor. BTW, what is there about Hagee’s statements that would upset an atheist?
Comment 3/15/2008
So that makes it okay that McCain actively sought out his endorsement, and even appeared with the man for a campaign rally? You have an odd idea of what reflects poorly on a candidate.
Comment 3/15/2008
“So that makes it okay that McCain actively sought out his endorsement, and even appeared with the man for a campaign rally?”
I can understand why you want to divert the subject away from Obama’s racist pastor. I’m not a big McCain supporter so I’m not sure why you are asking me to defend McCain.
BTW, what is there about Hagee’s statements that would upset an atheist?
Comment 3/15/2008
Morris, you seem to think that somebody selecting a pastor means that they look to that pastor as a moral authority. Some folks are a bit more mature than that and actually form their own understandings of right and wrong.
Then again, maybe I’m wrong about what a pastor is for. After all, I’m superstitious enough to need an advisor about spirits.
Comment 3/15/2008
“Morris, you seem to think that somebody selecting a pastor means that they look to that pastor as a moral authority. Some folks are a bit more mature than that and actually form their own understandings of right and wrong.”
Why would anyone select a pastor with whom you disagree? This is not about whether or not you are bigotted against religious people. It is about the judgment of Obama.
Comment 3/15/2008
Yeah, you know, I think Rev. Wright isn’t “media savvy” because that’s not his world, he’s a preacher preaching the gospel, not one of these slick willies operating in the world of politics and media.
Comment 3/15/2008
Morris:
Intolerance of all stripes offends me. I don’t see why my being an atheist is in any way relevant to that fact.
And I’m not asking you to defend McCain. I’m asking you why Obama’s association with Wright is worse than McCain’s association with Hagee, and therefore deserving of more attention and derision.
Obama denounced Wright’s statements as soon as he made them. McCain actually sought out the endorsement of Hagee, despite the fact that his bigoted statements were already a matter of public record, and only denounced them after public outcry. To me, the latter is far worse than the former.
Comment 3/15/2008
“Obama denounced Wright’s statements as soon as he made them.”
No he didn’t. One of the most controversal of Wright’s sermons was preached at a Christmas service. Besides, Wright has been saying these racist things for years. It is not a recent development.
BTW, what is there about Hagee’s statements that would upset an atheist?
Comment 3/15/2008
Yes there sure is a double standard. The media and majority of progressive blogs are doing there best to hush up and/or kill this story. If it concerned anyone Hillary barely knew, let alone was close to it would be blaring headlines 24/7 for weeks.
Comment 3/15/2008
“Yes there sure is a double standard.”
But nothing we haven’t come to expect from liberals.
Comment 3/15/2008
Okay, clearly I’ve failed to grasp what a pastor is.
I thought he was the dude who ran your local “hallelujah jive joint” and suggesting reading topics from your scripture for the week. Sure, he does a lot of the talking in your church, but he’s not a damned prophet. You listen to him (maybe) because he’s got some education is talkin about scripture and because he’s the dope who’s signed up to run the building where you all get together.
I figure he’s like the head of your local Boy Scout troop. Just some dink who is willing to deal with the day to day crap and might manage to piss off a minority of the members of the group. He’s got a job, but he’s not some ruler of what the group is about.
At least, that’s what I dimly remember from my childhood in which I was subjected to these silly things. Is that not what a pastor is? Can you get choose from several possible pastors when you join a church? Do you get to elect the guy? What are you suppose to do if you like your co-members of the church but think your pastor’s an idiot? Can you fire him?
Comment 3/15/2008
i’d try explaining, except for the chicken-and-egg problem: anybody daft enough to have to ask the question…
Comment 3/15/2008
I’m not sure if I’ve got the right Hagee, but one of them claimed that Hurricane Katrina was god’s punishment for a specific gay pride parade (not accurate, as the parade was scheduled for a different week than he claimed) and that Islam mandates the murder of Christian and Jewish individuals (rather dependent on interpretation, but probably incorrect as the technical requirement is only for the murder of apostates, is only established in the hadith rather than the main text as claimed).
I’m not familiar with the exacts of either situation, but from what information I’ve been able to find, Hagee’s a lightweight compared to Wright (odd, given that Hagee’s rolling in the lucre). Hagee’s an apocalyptic asshole with a tendency to play lose with the facts, if he cares about them at all, but both of these idiots tend to “preach hate” and have little problem blaming some group for their hardships. Hagee deserves denouncement (or a couple hits with a 2×4) for blaming gay people for Katrina, just as Wright deserves some pretty significant denouncement for blaming 9/11 on the evil racist Zionist conspiracy.
If that was all it was, I don’t think it’d be a particularly useful tool for us in the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy. It’s not particularly hard to find Democrats blaming people other than fundamentalist Islamic jihad fans for 9/11. Likewise, isn’t particularly hard to find people calling three strikes laws racist (I don’t, personally, understand how the amount of melanin in your skin makes an individual commit three crimes rather than two).
On the other hand, when you get to the level of conspiracy theory where the government invented AIDs and gives drugs away for free just to hook black people, then you start going from mere crazy idiot to worrisome idiot. That’s not the motivations of an ineffable invisible man in the clouds or the irritatingly misreading of a textbook, that’s ignoring basic science. The closest Hagee does is preach fear of Islamic nations and China, and there again we’re talking fairly ineffable motivations.
Given that Obama’s book takes its title from one of Wright’s sermons, and claims that he entered the Christian faith after talking to the man, I don’t think you can really claim that he’s not rather tied to the man.
Comment 3/16/2008
“i’d try explaining, except for the chicken-and-egg problem: anybody daft enough to have to ask the question”
In other words, you don’t have a clue.
Comment 3/16/2008
I’m not sure how the reference to my Chruchill comment applies. But, not a big deal if you don’t feel like getting into it either, Ted.
Here’s my real question: where’s the democracy here? How does something earn a quote of the day or week designation? Do you three vote? Are the readers free to nominate? Can we get a voice? Looks like the quote of the ____ is just whatever TG says it is- fascist!!
Comment 3/17/2008
Lean Left is not a fascist nation. It’s a fiefdom.
Comment 3/17/2008
“tgirsch writes:
The Reference
————-
Morris’s Head”
Have you not heard excepts of Wright’s sermons? I didn’t make them up in my head. I don’t have the capacity or desire to make up such racist garbage.
Comment 3/17/2008
Once again, your comments betray the fact that you completely miss the point.
Comment 3/17/2008
“tgirsch writes:
Once again, your comments betray the fact that you completely miss the point.”
What is the point?
Comment 3/17/2008
Morris,
The point is quite simple:
Given two racist nuts, be more concerned about the one with political backing.
Comment 3/17/2008
“The point is quite simple:
Given two racist nuts, be more concerned about the one with political backing.”
I get it now. Obama has the political backing of his pastor(and his nutty racist followers)–who is an anti-America political racist nut of the first order. How could I have missed that? Thanks for your help.
Comment 3/18/2008
I feel much better now that I’ve read Obama’s speech on racial matters. The gist of his defense of his racist spiritual advisor is that the Rev. Wright and his racist congregation do some good deeds. That’s like saying Hitler built some really good roads in Germany so let’s not condemn him. That’s like saying that the KKK promoted sheet sales so they must not be so bad.
If Obama didn’t know how racist and anti-American his mentor was, he is not bright enough to operate at ride at a county fair, much less be president of the USA that his pastor hates so much.
A short speech does not wipe out the 20 year association Obama has had with his church and pastor.
BTW, what’s with all the flags behind a man who will not wear a flag pin?
Comment 3/18/2008
We get it, Morris. Bigotry bothers you a lot more when it’s black people who are guilty of it. Why else would you constantly bring up Wright while pretending Hagee and Parsley are wholly unimportant? People in glass houses, and all that…
UPDATE: As I think about this, that’s not entirely fair. It’s not when black people are guilty of bigotry that it upsets Morris; it’s when he perceives white protestant Christians to be the victims of that bigotry that he gets his panties all in a twist. McCain actively wooing support from anti-Catholic, anti-Jewish, and anti-gay bigots? No big deal. Obama being supported by a guy who says bad things about white people? Stop the presses!
And in case there are any readers still to dense to get it, this post was not intended as a defense of Wright. Far from it. I wrote it to mock the double-standard that exists, wherein “conservative Christians” get to mouth off about all sorts of stuff, and GOP candidates get to actively kowtow to those people, and a cursory apology makes it all better, whereas Democratic candidates cannot be even obliquely associated with blowhard preachers of any kind.
Comment 3/18/2008
“Bigotry bothers you a lot more when it’s black people who are guilty of it. Why else would you constantly bring up Wright while pretending Hagee and Parsley are wholly unimportant?”
As usual, you are a liar. I think Hagee and Parsley are charlatans. I have no use for them. However, they are not the mentors of a man who may be president. Also, I was under the impression that this blog was about Wright. Your inept attempt at diversion is pathetic.
I don’t know why you keep mistaking me for a McCain supporter. I have never voted for him in any primary. I may, while holding my nose, vote for him in the GE because of the awful democrat candidates.
BTW, Hagee has said nothing worse about Catholics or Jews than what you atheists say about people of faith all the time. Get off your high horse.
Comment 3/18/2008
Also, I was under the impression that this blog was about Wright.
Proving, beyond all remaining doubt, that you completely missed the point. No diversion here, only you missing the point. Repeatedly.
However, they are not the mentors of a man who may be president.
Not “mentors,” maybe, but a man who may be president actively sought out their support, and refuses to denounce them. But I guess that since he never called them “mentor” that makes it all okay.
Hagee has said nothing worse about Catholics or Jews than what you atheists say about people of faith all the time.
Really? I don’t recall ever saying that “people of faith” are going to burn in hell for eternity…
But in any case, you make my case for me. You are far more tolerant of the bigoted remarks of Hagee and Parsley than you are of the allegedly bigoted remarks of Wright. My guess is it’s because you’re more inclined to agree with the remarks of Hagee and Parsley.
Comment 3/18/2008
“Really? I don’t recall ever saying that “people of faith” are going to burn in hell for eternity…”
Yes, that would be unusual for an atheist to say. What a nut you are!
“You are far more tolerant of the bigoted remarks of Hagee and Parsley than you are of the allegedly bigoted remarks of Wright.”
Again, you lie. I have not made any remarks supporting anything Hagee or Parsley have said. I have asked three times for you to tell me what remarks Hagee has made that offend atheists. (I’m not sure how the creep Parsley got into the conversation.) I may or may not agree with you but since you don’t tell me what those remarks are I guess I will never know.
You reveal your character by using the word “allegedy” concerning Wright’s bigoted remarks. If you don’t think his remarks are racist and bigoted then you are sorely lacking in character.
Comment 3/18/2008
Thanks for making my point. You haven’t condemned Hagee’s or Parsley’s statements because those aren’t getting nearly the same media attention as Wright’s, despite the fact that the presumptive GOP nominee for president has actively sought out their support. If media coverage were fair, their statements would get at least as much coverage as Wright’s.
Your question about what’s offensive “to atheists” is irrelevant, which is why it remains unanswered. I have answered that I find religious bigotry unacceptable no matter what the source is, but for some reason that answer isn’t good enough for you. If you’re ignorant of the bigoted remarks of Hagee and Parsley, then that’s your problem, not mine.
And I use “allegedly” because I’m unaware of what supposedly-bigoted statements Wright has made. I’m only aware of the “God damn America” statement, which is stupid, but not bigoted.
Comment 3/18/2008
“You haven’t condemned Hagee’s or Parsley’s statements because those aren’t getting nearly the same media attention as Wright’s,”
What a strange illogical statement! I am bigoted because I haven’t condemned statements that haven’t been in the press. The “fact” that I haven’t heard the statements and have not been able to hear them because of the lack of media attention means that I agree with the statements is a very stange position for you to take. What a weird person you are!
If you are waiting for me to defend Hagee or Parsley, you have a long wait. If you are waiting for me to defend John McCain, you have a long wait.
Comment 3/18/2008
I’m not waiting for you to defend them. I’m merely waiting for you to be less selective in your condemnation. And you’re right, I’ve got a long wait.
Comment 3/18/2008
If you will tell me what has you so upset with Hagee and Parsley, I can tell you whether or not I disagree with them. I disagree with them on most things concerning their religious practices.
Comment 3/18/2008
But that’s the point: I have to solicit condemnation of Hagee and Parsley, even though both are closely tied to a current presidential candidate. Whereas you’re willing to condemn Wright — also closely tied to a presidential candidate — all on your own.
Comment 3/18/2008
Good grief! I know about Wright. I don’t know what you want me to condemn about Hagee.
I’m tired of your obtuseness. Move on.
Comment 3/18/2008
I know about Wright. I don’t know what you want me to condemn about Hagee.
That’s precisely the point! That it’s taking you this long to get it is mind numbing. Two men, both closely tied to preachers who make inflammatory statements, yet one gets criticized resoundingly in the media for it, while for the other it’s just business as usual. Does that not strike you as the least bit unfair?
Comment 3/18/2008
P.S. Since you’re so adamant about this, why don’t you educate me? Just exactly what is it that Rev. Wright has said that’s racist?
Comment 3/18/2008
I asked you first.
Comment 3/18/2008
How mature of you!
Hagee has said that through their disobedience to God, the Jews have brought their suffering (including the Holocaust) upon themselves. He has also called Catholicism ‘A Godless theology of hate.’ There’s two examples to start with.
Comment 3/18/2008
Finally.
I disagree with both statements (if you accurately stated them–which is not a given). Now was that too hard?
BTW, do you not believe every religion is godless?
Comment 3/18/2008
OK, now take it a step further. Since you disagree with both statements, would you condemn a presidential candidate who actively sought out the endorsement of the man who made (and continues to make) them?
Comment 3/18/2008
Also, now look up. Remember this, way at the top?
All of these were done by Hagee, a guy whose endorsement McCain explicitly sought and received. But that, to you, is no big deal, it seems. All that information was given to you essentially right away, and it took you until comment #49 to issue, to quote from above again, a “milquetoast repudiation,” thereby underscoring the original point.
If you want to be morally consistent, you should demand that McCain renounce all association with Hagee and his church, and reject Hagee’s endorsement.
Comment 3/18/2008
“All that information was given to you essentially right away, and it took you until comment #49 to issue, to quote from above again, a “milquetoast repudiation,” thereby underscoring the original point.”
I thought the blog was about Wright.
As to the Rapture, the Bible is clear that those who have placed their faith in Christ will be raptured and those who don’t will be left behind. You can’t believe the Bible without believing that. You are wrong to say that Hagee has said that only he and his flock will be raptured. Why do you lie about that?
You can divert attention from Wright all you want. It won’t help to lessen the abhorent anti-white and anti-USA preaching of Wright.
I don’t believe that Katrina was the fault of homosexuals. It is a kooky statement from a kook.
As to why I don’t demand that McCain renounce Hagee, the last time I talked to John the subject didn’t come up, but the next time I see him I will ask him about it.
Comment 3/18/2008
I thought the blog was about Wright.
We know that’s what you thought. We’ve already established that you totally missed the point. No need to keep repeating that fact.
the abhorent anti-white and anti-USA preaching
Such as…?
As to why I don’t demand that McCain renounce Hagee, the last time I talked to John the subject didn’t come up, but the next time I see him I will ask him about it.
And I talk to Obama on a daily basis?
Comment 3/18/2008
Nice exchange. You guys are burning up the internet. I’m a bit confused though. I thought the piece was about Wright.
Comment 3/18/2008
“the abhorent anti-white and anti-USA preaching”
“Such as…?”
Do your own homework. I would assume you know how to google and how to access youtube.com. If not, ask a friend to show you how. Listen to the evening news every once in a while.
Comment 3/18/2008
Speaking of double-standards. You constantly insist that I explain to you what Hagee or Parsley ever said that’s offensive, but when I ask you to do the same thing for Wright, you tell me to “do [my] own homework.”
I think we know what this means: You’re just lazy.
Or, I could just paraphrase someone you usually agree with, “If you will tell me what has you so upset with Wright, I can tell you whether or not I disagree with him.”
Comment 3/18/2008
“I think we know what this means: You’re just lazy.”
No, I’m just don’t think you are worthy of me spending my time restating what is all over the news today. I am not defending Hagee. You are defending Obama.
Comment 3/18/2008
Since when are Hagee and Obama comparable in this analogy. The proper comparison is between McCain (who you don’t fault for being associated with religious bigots) and Obama (who you do fault for it).
Thanks for once again clearly demonstrating exactly the double-standard I’m talking about.
Comment 3/18/2008