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	<title>Comments on: Mmm, Humble Pie!</title>
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	<link>http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/07/31/6686/</link>
	<description>The View From the Sinister Side of Life</description>
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		<title>By: Lean Left &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Sports Coverage Sucks</title>
		<link>http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/07/31/6686/comment-page-1/#comment-620052</link>
		<dc:creator>Lean Left &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Sports Coverage Sucks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 16:48:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/07/31/6686/#comment-620052</guid>
		<description>[...] they got swept at home by the Cubs in a four-game set, and yes that was tough. I whined about it myself. But these things happen, and they don&#8217;t constitute a team in some sort of free-fall, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] they got swept at home by the Cubs in a four-game set, and yes that was tough. I whined about it myself. But these things happen, and they don&#8217;t constitute a team in some sort of free-fall, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: digglahhh</title>
		<link>http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/07/31/6686/comment-page-1/#comment-605692</link>
		<dc:creator>digglahhh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:20:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/07/31/6686/#comment-605692</guid>
		<description>Fine, but it&#039;s not an apples to apples comparison, and differing contexts from team to team imply that you can&#039;t equate the cost with the value.  So I stand by this: &quot;if you&#039;re using price as a proxy for worth, you&#039;re doing so either naively or disingenuously.&quot;

#99 went yard again last night!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fine, but it&#8217;s not an apples to apples comparison, and differing contexts from team to team imply that you can&#8217;t equate the cost with the value.  So I stand by this: &#8220;if you&#8217;re using price as a proxy for worth, you&#8217;re doing so either naively or disingenuously.&#8221;</p>
<p>#99 went yard again last night!</p>
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		<title>By: Ted</title>
		<link>http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/07/31/6686/comment-page-1/#comment-605588</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 03:42:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/07/31/6686/#comment-605588</guid>
		<description>Can&#039;t get into the racial stuff. But I&#039;ll stand by pricing statement 100%  It;s very simple.  In a transaction, the staps along the way miht be complex, put in the end, the cos is what you no longer have, and the gain is what you now have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can&#8217;t get into the racial stuff. But I&#8217;ll stand by pricing statement 100%  It;s very simple.  In a transaction, the staps along the way miht be complex, put in the end, the cos is what you no longer have, and the gain is what you now have.</p>
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		<title>By: Big U</title>
		<link>http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/07/31/6686/comment-page-1/#comment-605517</link>
		<dc:creator>Big U</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 21:18:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/07/31/6686/#comment-605517</guid>
		<description>**But, that type of personality gets revered when it is exhibited by a white guy; that’s John Wayne! When a black guy does it, he’s a militant, black radical, a threat.**

Actually that part is total crap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>**But, that type of personality gets revered when it is exhibited by a white guy; that’s John Wayne! When a black guy does it, he’s a militant, black radical, a threat.**</p>
<p>Actually that part is total crap.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Big U</title>
		<link>http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/07/31/6686/comment-page-1/#comment-605502</link>
		<dc:creator>Big U</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 20:14:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/07/31/6686/#comment-605502</guid>
		<description>Good example Digglahhh</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good example Digglahhh</p>
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		<title>By: tgirsch</title>
		<link>http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/07/31/6686/comment-page-1/#comment-605478</link>
		<dc:creator>tgirsch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 18:46:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/07/31/6686/#comment-605478</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;digg:&lt;/b&gt;

Excellent example, actually.  Clemens continued to get commercial offers until very recently, well after he &lt;i&gt;threw a broken bat at a guy&lt;/i&gt; on national television.  Clemens is every bit the asshole that Bonds is.

&lt;i&gt;But, that type of personality gets revered when it is exhibited by a white guy; that’s John Wayne! When a black guy does it, he’s a militant, black radical, a threat.&lt;/i&gt;

This criticism is highly accurate, and it extends well beyond the realm of sports.  Imagine a black guy with GWB&#039;s attitude!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>digg:</b></p>
<p>Excellent example, actually.  Clemens continued to get commercial offers until very recently, well after he <i>threw a broken bat at a guy</i> on national television.  Clemens is every bit the asshole that Bonds is.</p>
<p><i>But, that type of personality gets revered when it is exhibited by a white guy; that’s John Wayne! When a black guy does it, he’s a militant, black radical, a threat.</i></p>
<p>This criticism is highly accurate, and it extends well beyond the realm of sports.  Imagine a black guy with GWB&#8217;s attitude!</p>
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		<title>By: digglahhh</title>
		<link>http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/07/31/6686/comment-page-1/#comment-605474</link>
		<dc:creator>digglahhh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 18:35:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/07/31/6686/#comment-605474</guid>
		<description>Nope, still no peer review as far as I know.  I wrote briefly about that study over on Metaphorical’s blog, back when I was part-time writing there, as opposed to full-time commenting here. 

The stories about Last-O focused on questioning his dedication, the conclusion being that he wasn’t fully investing himself in his growth as an athlete.  Do you really think the MSM actually listen to the content of a rap album before deriding any artist as part of a corrosive culture?  Bill O’Reilly picked Nas to go to war with; that’s like claiming comedic movies have no intellectual depth and then choosing as your bashing post, I Heart Huckabees…  Specific content was not the main issue, the mere act of practicing hip hop as a hobby was cause to question the man’s desire to play baseball.  Meanwhile, Arroyo’s ERA is still a buck and a half higher than a gallon of gas.

I don’t really know how an anecdotal recount of two athletes of similar prowess who are treated differently is going to help, as you’ve already discounted my original piece of far more substantive evidence.

But how about Clemens and Bonds?  Argurably the greatest pitcher of his generation, and inarguably (sorry, Griffey fans) the best position player of his generation.  Sure, Clemens is getting his share of vitriol now, but they were treated incredibly differently.  Clemens wasn’t presumed guilty before any credible evidence surfaced.  Clemens put up age-defying season after age-defying season, he pitched at levels in his early forties that he hadn’t apporached since his mid-twenties, and nobody gave a shit.  And, Clemens is by all accounts a dick too, he’s surly and brash.  But, he’s not an asshole like Bonds – he’s a “cowboy,” a “gunslinger.”  But, that type of personality gets revered when it is exhibited by a white guy; that’s John Wayne!  When a black guy does it, he’s a militant, black radical, a threat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nope, still no peer review as far as I know.  I wrote briefly about that study over on Metaphorical’s blog, back when I was part-time writing there, as opposed to full-time commenting here. </p>
<p>The stories about Last-O focused on questioning his dedication, the conclusion being that he wasn’t fully investing himself in his growth as an athlete.  Do you really think the MSM actually listen to the content of a rap album before deriding any artist as part of a corrosive culture?  Bill O’Reilly picked Nas to go to war with; that’s like claiming comedic movies have no intellectual depth and then choosing as your bashing post, I Heart Huckabees…  Specific content was not the main issue, the mere act of practicing hip hop as a hobby was cause to question the man’s desire to play baseball.  Meanwhile, Arroyo’s ERA is still a buck and a half higher than a gallon of gas.</p>
<p>I don’t really know how an anecdotal recount of two athletes of similar prowess who are treated differently is going to help, as you’ve already discounted my original piece of far more substantive evidence.</p>
<p>But how about Clemens and Bonds?  Argurably the greatest pitcher of his generation, and inarguably (sorry, Griffey fans) the best position player of his generation.  Sure, Clemens is getting his share of vitriol now, but they were treated incredibly differently.  Clemens wasn’t presumed guilty before any credible evidence surfaced.  Clemens put up age-defying season after age-defying season, he pitched at levels in his early forties that he hadn’t apporached since his mid-twenties, and nobody gave a shit.  And, Clemens is by all accounts a dick too, he’s surly and brash.  But, he’s not an asshole like Bonds – he’s a “cowboy,” a “gunslinger.”  But, that type of personality gets revered when it is exhibited by a white guy; that’s John Wayne!  When a black guy does it, he’s a militant, black radical, a threat.</p>
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		<title>By: Big U</title>
		<link>http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/07/31/6686/comment-page-1/#comment-605463</link>
		<dc:creator>Big U</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 17:48:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/07/31/6686/#comment-605463</guid>
		<description>tgirsch &gt; that report is interesting.  Has it been peer-reviewed yet?  

I will not deny that there are preconceptions that color people&#039;s approach to everything.  But those preconceptions go both ways.  I have seen many instances where racism was assumed though none existed.  And that was done because of a person&#039;s preconceptions.

Race can be a factor in many things but it seems that even when it isn&#039;t a factor, people want it to be because that fits their built in prejudices.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tgirsch &gt; that report is interesting.  Has it been peer-reviewed yet?  </p>
<p>I will not deny that there are preconceptions that color people&#8217;s approach to everything.  But those preconceptions go both ways.  I have seen many instances where racism was assumed though none existed.  And that was done because of a person&#8217;s preconceptions.</p>
<p>Race can be a factor in many things but it seems that even when it isn&#8217;t a factor, people want it to be because that fits their built in prejudices.</p>
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		<title>By: tgirsch</title>
		<link>http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/07/31/6686/comment-page-1/#comment-605447</link>
		<dc:creator>tgirsch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 16:04:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/07/31/6686/#comment-605447</guid>
		<description>I guess the difference between you and me is that you&#039;re willing to give a lot more &quot;benefit of the doubt&quot; than I am, and are a lot more willing to presume that race &lt;i&gt;isn&#039;t&lt;/i&gt; a factor.  A benefit of being a Canuck, I suppose...

Anyway, here&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/02/sports/basketball/02refs.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;another recent example&lt;/a&gt;.

[Comment edited for tone.]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess the difference between you and me is that you&#8217;re willing to give a lot more &#8220;benefit of the doubt&#8221; than I am, and are a lot more willing to presume that race <i>isn&#8217;t</i> a factor.  A benefit of being a Canuck, I suppose&#8230;</p>
<p>Anyway, here&#8217;s <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/02/sports/basketball/02refs.html" rel="nofollow">another recent example</a>.</p>
<p>[Comment edited for tone.]</p>
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		<title>By: Big U</title>
		<link>http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/07/31/6686/comment-page-1/#comment-605445</link>
		<dc:creator>Big U</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 16:03:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/07/31/6686/#comment-605445</guid>
		<description>What I meant by geography in #34 is that it is likely more a case of me being in Canada and not exposed to as much of that type of media.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I meant by geography in #34 is that it is likely more a case of me being in Canada and not exposed to as much of that type of media.</p>
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