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	<title>Comments on: More Heartwarming Misogyny From the Right Wing</title>
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	<description>The View From the Sinister Side of Life</description>
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		<title>By: Lean Left &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Sarah Palin: Not a Joke, but a Victim of . . . the Abortion Culture</title>
		<link>http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/10/24/6858/comment-page-1/#comment-620064</link>
		<dc:creator>Lean Left &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Sarah Palin: Not a Joke, but a Victim of . . . the Abortion Culture</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 18:24:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/10/24/6858/#comment-620064</guid>
		<description>[...] Forget the baseball tie-ins. The Gibbering Abortion-Rights Exquisite Corpse Dadaesque Word Association Prize has now been [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Forget the baseball tie-ins. The Gibbering Abortion-Rights Exquisite Corpse Dadaesque Word Association Prize has now been [...]</p>
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		<title>By: bob</title>
		<link>http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/10/24/6858/comment-page-1/#comment-618728</link>
		<dc:creator>bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 02:43:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/10/24/6858/#comment-618728</guid>
		<description>Richard,
Videos like this help to seal my moral outlook:

http://www.durarealidad.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard,<br />
Videos like this help to seal my moral outlook:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.durarealidad.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.durarealidad.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: bob</title>
		<link>http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/10/24/6858/comment-page-1/#comment-618710</link>
		<dc:creator>bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 23:51:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/10/24/6858/#comment-618710</guid>
		<description>&quot;Do you pick up the girl or do you pick up the refrigerator? Forty versus one, which do you choose?&quot;

Picking the girl does not negate the right to life of the fertilized ovum, anymore than picking the girl over an elderly woman weighing only a little more negates her &quot;personhood&quot;. All efforts should be made to save every life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Do you pick up the girl or do you pick up the refrigerator? Forty versus one, which do you choose?&#8221;</p>
<p>Picking the girl does not negate the right to life of the fertilized ovum, anymore than picking the girl over an elderly woman weighing only a little more negates her &#8220;personhood&#8221;. All efforts should be made to save every life.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/10/24/6858/comment-page-1/#comment-618516</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 00:50:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/10/24/6858/#comment-618516</guid>
		<description>Here is a thought experiment for those on the fence about when personhood begins.

You’re in a fertility clinic on the eighth floor and you hear the fire alarm ringing.  You’re in a lab where there is refrigerator that you know holds forty recently fertilized human ovum. There is also the four-year-old daughter of one of the lab technicians visiting her dad on a &quot;bring your daughter work&quot; field trip.

The flames are rapidly working their way down the corridor.  The young girl is crying and asking you to help her.  You know that you can carry the refrigerator or you can carry the girl but not both and still make it to safety.

Do you pick up the girl or do you pick up the refrigerator?  Forty versus one, which do you choose?

I am not actually looking for anyone’s answer here, but this was the question that sealed my moral outlook on the question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is a thought experiment for those on the fence about when personhood begins.</p>
<p>You’re in a fertility clinic on the eighth floor and you hear the fire alarm ringing.  You’re in a lab where there is refrigerator that you know holds forty recently fertilized human ovum. There is also the four-year-old daughter of one of the lab technicians visiting her dad on a &#8220;bring your daughter work&#8221; field trip.</p>
<p>The flames are rapidly working their way down the corridor.  The young girl is crying and asking you to help her.  You know that you can carry the refrigerator or you can carry the girl but not both and still make it to safety.</p>
<p>Do you pick up the girl or do you pick up the refrigerator?  Forty versus one, which do you choose?</p>
<p>I am not actually looking for anyone’s answer here, but this was the question that sealed my moral outlook on the question.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan M.</title>
		<link>http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/10/24/6858/comment-page-1/#comment-618372</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 02:18:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/10/24/6858/#comment-618372</guid>
		<description>Right.  Enough feeding the troll.

Fortunately, KTK already has an excellent explanation of the important matters: http://sufficientscruples.com/blog/?page_id=42</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right.  Enough feeding the troll.</p>
<p>Fortunately, KTK already has an excellent explanation of the important matters: <a href="http://sufficientscruples.com/blog/?page_id=42" rel="nofollow">http://sufficientscruples.com/blog/?page_id=42</a></p>
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		<title>By: LarryE</title>
		<link>http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/10/24/6858/comment-page-1/#comment-618345</link>
		<dc:creator>LarryE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 22:48:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/10/24/6858/#comment-618345</guid>
		<description>bob -

I will say only that I am not at all impressed with the vacuous, ignorant, uninformed non-arguments of someone who knows so little about the topic he imagines he is addressing that he can&#039;t even be bothered to spell the person&#039;s name - that is, Terri &lt;i&gt;Schiavo&lt;/i&gt; - correctly.

If anyone wants to know my own thoughts about that whole business, go &lt;a href=&quot;http://whoviating.blogspot.com/search?q=schiavo&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;to this link&lt;/a&gt;. Scan down past the first few posts there, which merely contain references to earlier ones.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bob -</p>
<p>I will say only that I am not at all impressed with the vacuous, ignorant, uninformed non-arguments of someone who knows so little about the topic he imagines he is addressing that he can&#8217;t even be bothered to spell the person&#8217;s name &#8211; that is, Terri <i>Schiavo</i> &#8211; correctly.</p>
<p>If anyone wants to know my own thoughts about that whole business, go <a href="http://whoviating.blogspot.com/search?q=schiavo" rel="nofollow">to this link</a>. Scan down past the first few posts there, which merely contain references to earlier ones.</p>
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		<title>By: bob</title>
		<link>http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/10/24/6858/comment-page-1/#comment-618329</link>
		<dc:creator>bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 17:38:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/10/24/6858/#comment-618329</guid>
		<description>(1) They’ve invented these neat things called condoms. And “The Pill”. And several others. What century are you living?

If they are so effective, why is so many unwanted pregancies?

(2) So, another neat invention are these things called “nursing homing”. Actually, they kinda suck, but not as much as turning one’s own home into a hospice. As to missing the point, living in somebody’s house is not exactly similar to living in their body.

Remember it may be you stuck in a nursing home someday because your children adopted your attitude. Yes, a pregnancy is over in a mere 9 months, an infirm parent living in your home is indefinite.

(3) Ask somebody 50 years ago if they though those uppity blacks would be allowed to share our drinking fountains… No, using the insanity of the past doesn’t even pass the milk test. By the way, exactly how many unwanted euthenizations have their been?

Comparing the past struggle for black civil rights to abortion is rather ironic considering abortion takes away the right to life of an unborn child. Not to mention this would be just as offensive to blacks as comparing their past struggle to homosexuals demanding the right to &quot;marry&quot;. 

(4) Terry Shiavo anyone? HAHAHAHAHA!! Let’s see, she had no living will, the meager evidence showed that she would have supported the euthanization, the drooling husk of her body wasn’t a person anyway, and the vindictive family hated her husband and had a financial incentive to oppose everything he did. Oh, tell another one!

Awful. The meager evidence? Their was no evidence except for the word of a man who fathered another child while still married, and yet still wanted to claim guardianship to her. A man so full of spite he was willing to starve his devout Catholic wife to death rather than easily relinqish care to her parents. Just in RoevWade, yet again we have a judge determining the right to life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(1) They’ve invented these neat things called condoms. And “The Pill”. And several others. What century are you living?</p>
<p>If they are so effective, why is so many unwanted pregancies?</p>
<p>(2) So, another neat invention are these things called “nursing homing”. Actually, they kinda suck, but not as much as turning one’s own home into a hospice. As to missing the point, living in somebody’s house is not exactly similar to living in their body.</p>
<p>Remember it may be you stuck in a nursing home someday because your children adopted your attitude. Yes, a pregnancy is over in a mere 9 months, an infirm parent living in your home is indefinite.</p>
<p>(3) Ask somebody 50 years ago if they though those uppity blacks would be allowed to share our drinking fountains… No, using the insanity of the past doesn’t even pass the milk test. By the way, exactly how many unwanted euthenizations have their been?</p>
<p>Comparing the past struggle for black civil rights to abortion is rather ironic considering abortion takes away the right to life of an unborn child. Not to mention this would be just as offensive to blacks as comparing their past struggle to homosexuals demanding the right to &#8220;marry&#8221;. </p>
<p>(4) Terry Shiavo anyone? HAHAHAHAHA!! Let’s see, she had no living will, the meager evidence showed that she would have supported the euthanization, the drooling husk of her body wasn’t a person anyway, and the vindictive family hated her husband and had a financial incentive to oppose everything he did. Oh, tell another one!</p>
<p>Awful. The meager evidence? Their was no evidence except for the word of a man who fathered another child while still married, and yet still wanted to claim guardianship to her. A man so full of spite he was willing to starve his devout Catholic wife to death rather than easily relinqish care to her parents. Just in RoevWade, yet again we have a judge determining the right to life.</p>
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		<title>By: Elaine</title>
		<link>http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/10/24/6858/comment-page-1/#comment-618325</link>
		<dc:creator>Elaine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 15:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/10/24/6858/#comment-618325</guid>
		<description>Kevin - Thank you for the very informative reply.  It sent cold shivers down my spine.  Being from Tennessee, I would bet that my state would be one of the ones that would outlaw all abortions.  Of course, if that were the case and I got pregnant, I would just fly to Europe or somewhere to get an abortion.  Many women don&#039;t have that option.  Making abortions illegal only makes it so that poor women are stuck either having the baby or going to some back-alley abortionist.  Of course, if the women don&#039;t have health insurance and have complications from the pregnancy, they are just s--- out of luck.  

Exceptions for the health of the woman are so subjective.  Any time a woman is pregnant, her life is at risk.  I have two friends who ended up pretty close to death as a result of pregnancy and delivery - one friend had a close call right before the baby was born and then ended up in ICU a week later from an entirely different complication.   I am terrified by the notion of a person like me (who is under greater risk) being told to go through with a pregnancy just because the hospital staff is feeling pressured to reduce the number of approved abortions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin &#8211; Thank you for the very informative reply.  It sent cold shivers down my spine.  Being from Tennessee, I would bet that my state would be one of the ones that would outlaw all abortions.  Of course, if that were the case and I got pregnant, I would just fly to Europe or somewhere to get an abortion.  Many women don&#8217;t have that option.  Making abortions illegal only makes it so that poor women are stuck either having the baby or going to some back-alley abortionist.  Of course, if the women don&#8217;t have health insurance and have complications from the pregnancy, they are just s&#8212; out of luck.  </p>
<p>Exceptions for the health of the woman are so subjective.  Any time a woman is pregnant, her life is at risk.  I have two friends who ended up pretty close to death as a result of pregnancy and delivery &#8211; one friend had a close call right before the baby was born and then ended up in ICU a week later from an entirely different complication.   I am terrified by the notion of a person like me (who is under greater risk) being told to go through with a pregnancy just because the hospital staff is feeling pressured to reduce the number of approved abortions.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan M.</title>
		<link>http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/10/24/6858/comment-page-1/#comment-618324</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 15:26:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/10/24/6858/#comment-618324</guid>
		<description>(1)  They&#039;ve invented these neat things called condoms.  And &quot;The Pill&quot;.  And several others.  What century are you living?

(2) So, another neat invention are these things called &quot;nursing homing&quot;.  Actually, they kinda suck, but not as much as turning one&#039;s own home into a hospice.  As to missing the point, living in somebody&#039;s house is not exactly similar to living in their body.

(3) Ask somebody 50 years ago if they though those uppity blacks would be allowed to share our drinking fountains... No, using the insanity of the past doesn&#039;t even pass the milk test.  By the way, exactly how many unwanted euthenizations have their been?

(4) &lt;i&gt;Terry Shiavo anyone?&lt;/i&gt; HAHAHAHAHA!!  Let&#039;s see, she had no living will, the meager evidence showed that she would have supported the euthanization, the drooling husk of her body wasn&#039;t a person anyway, and the vindictive family hated her husband and had a financial incentive to oppose everything he did.  Oh, tell another one!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(1)  They&#8217;ve invented these neat things called condoms.  And &#8220;The Pill&#8221;.  And several others.  What century are you living?</p>
<p>(2) So, another neat invention are these things called &#8220;nursing homing&#8221;.  Actually, they kinda suck, but not as much as turning one&#8217;s own home into a hospice.  As to missing the point, living in somebody&#8217;s house is not exactly similar to living in their body.</p>
<p>(3) Ask somebody 50 years ago if they though those uppity blacks would be allowed to share our drinking fountains&#8230; No, using the insanity of the past doesn&#8217;t even pass the milk test.  By the way, exactly how many unwanted euthenizations have their been?</p>
<p>(4) <i>Terry Shiavo anyone?</i> HAHAHAHAHA!!  Let&#8217;s see, she had no living will, the meager evidence showed that she would have supported the euthanization, the drooling husk of her body wasn&#8217;t a person anyway, and the vindictive family hated her husband and had a financial incentive to oppose everything he did.  Oh, tell another one!</p>
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		<title>By: bob</title>
		<link>http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/10/24/6858/comment-page-1/#comment-618318</link>
		<dc:creator>bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:51:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2008/10/24/6858/#comment-618318</guid>
		<description>&quot;bob,
It looks like you’re one of those folks who can’t tell the difference between a person and a clump of cells. But hey, that doesn’t even matter! You’re comment is foolish and meaningless anyway.&quot;

Its not &quot;above my pay scale&quot; to tell that picture is not a &quot;clump of cells&quot;.


&quot;(1) Elderly parents can’t exactly come as a surprise. Heck, most of us knew about our parents ever since we could remember!&quot;

Last I checked, when you have sexual relations there is almost always the possibility of impregnation (unless one or the other is sterile). 

&quot;(2) Last I heard, it wasn’t common for parents, elderly or otherwise, to take up residence in one’s abdomen. While it is slightly more common for them to use a child’s blood supply, that’s still pretty rare.&quot;

You miss the point. Whether the unborn child resides in womb, or the elderly parent has to move into the daughter&#039;s house, either way it is an inconvenience to her and they must be eliminated.

&quot;(3) There doesn’t seem to be any large political lobby that wants to restrict which options a child of elderly parents can legally use to care for those parents. In fact, we have this thing called “Social Security”, which is a form of nation-wide insurance specifically designed to partially cover the economic burden that elderly parents put on their children.&quot;

Exactly, euthanasia is now a legal option due to judicial activism and a large political lobby has not formed yet to try and restrict its use. As you state, SS only partially covers the economic burden and this situation has only become worse due to the aging of baby boomers. Don&#039;t think it can happen? Ask someone 50 years ago if they would believe we could murder almost 50 million unborn children.

&quot;(4) I don’t think there are any known cases of fetuses expressing any opinions about the financial burdens they place on their parents...&quot;

That is why abortion is so evil, it is the murder of innocent children THAT ARE UNABLE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES. 

&quot;On the other hand, there are these neat things called “living wills”, which allow an infirm elderly parent to participate in the decision of what to do with them when they become a burden. Now, even though any decision by the parent to choose euthenasia must be quite explicit, there are lots of places that do restrict the parents’ choices about how to affect their children.&quot;

Euthanasia has now been legalized and the decision of the family caretaker can now trump any living wills, if they even exist. Terry Shiavo anyone?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;bob,<br />
It looks like you’re one of those folks who can’t tell the difference between a person and a clump of cells. But hey, that doesn’t even matter! You’re comment is foolish and meaningless anyway.&#8221;</p>
<p>Its not &#8220;above my pay scale&#8221; to tell that picture is not a &#8220;clump of cells&#8221;.</p>
<p>&#8220;(1) Elderly parents can’t exactly come as a surprise. Heck, most of us knew about our parents ever since we could remember!&#8221;</p>
<p>Last I checked, when you have sexual relations there is almost always the possibility of impregnation (unless one or the other is sterile). </p>
<p>&#8220;(2) Last I heard, it wasn’t common for parents, elderly or otherwise, to take up residence in one’s abdomen. While it is slightly more common for them to use a child’s blood supply, that’s still pretty rare.&#8221;</p>
<p>You miss the point. Whether the unborn child resides in womb, or the elderly parent has to move into the daughter&#8217;s house, either way it is an inconvenience to her and they must be eliminated.</p>
<p>&#8220;(3) There doesn’t seem to be any large political lobby that wants to restrict which options a child of elderly parents can legally use to care for those parents. In fact, we have this thing called “Social Security”, which is a form of nation-wide insurance specifically designed to partially cover the economic burden that elderly parents put on their children.&#8221;</p>
<p>Exactly, euthanasia is now a legal option due to judicial activism and a large political lobby has not formed yet to try and restrict its use. As you state, SS only partially covers the economic burden and this situation has only become worse due to the aging of baby boomers. Don&#8217;t think it can happen? Ask someone 50 years ago if they would believe we could murder almost 50 million unborn children.</p>
<p>&#8220;(4) I don’t think there are any known cases of fetuses expressing any opinions about the financial burdens they place on their parents&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>That is why abortion is so evil, it is the murder of innocent children THAT ARE UNABLE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES. </p>
<p>&#8220;On the other hand, there are these neat things called “living wills”, which allow an infirm elderly parent to participate in the decision of what to do with them when they become a burden. Now, even though any decision by the parent to choose euthenasia must be quite explicit, there are lots of places that do restrict the parents’ choices about how to affect their children.&#8221;</p>
<p>Euthanasia has now been legalized and the decision of the family caretaker can now trump any living wills, if they even exist. Terry Shiavo anyone?</p>
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